Why no envelopes?

Software Effects Filter MINI
#1

Maybe I’m missing the point of your filters, but why do they not have envelopes? I have Filter MINI and Filter MS-20. Both have MIDI inputs - seems like a perfect way to implement an envelope. Even Filter MS-20’s Function Generator cannot be triggered.

Seems like a massive missed opportunity.

#2

You can use the Envelope Follower in the modulation section to be triggered by external audio from another track I think. There is also te option of standard modulation which can be synched to tempo. I suggest checking out some tutorial videos on YouTube.

#3

Thanks for your reply Funtmaster.

I understand all that. An envelope follower is no substitute for an envelope - it does not have the controls of an envelope, namely Sustain level and Decay time, nor can it be guaranteed to trigger on every note.

As for internal modulation - why sync to tempo when it would be much more useful to just trigger it from the MIDI trigger? Then at least the MS-20’s Function Generator could be usable (and in Filter MINI you don’t even have that option).

I still just don’t understand why a synth filter wouldn’t have its own envelope.

#4

Sound like you should make it a feature suggestion. Arturia are listening.

1 Like
#5

MIDI triggers for audio effects aren’t entirely straightforward. I believe it isn’t supported by all DAWs, and even in the ones that do, configuring it isn’t always easy. There are also complexities such as what do do with polyphonic MIDI information that have to be exposed in the UI. I can understand not wanting to deal with all of this.

If you use Ableton Live, you can use its MIDI-controlled modulation devices to automate it. Other DAWs might have similar capabilities (I’m pretty sure at least Bitwig does).

#6

Hi all.

Yes there is no no midi triggering.

Envelope followers are good. A very good thing about the MS-20 filter is it also have Sidechain option. A second input source can then form a envelope curve. For example the curve formed by a midi triggered ADSR envelopes audio output from a synth.

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#7

So, add a redundant synth just to get the action of an envelope.

And I disagree with you on envelope followers. If I want a percussive modulation of the filter, an envelope follower will just hold the filter open while the input is present, which you can more easily achieve just by manually opening the cutoff, which brings the follower’s usefulness into question. Again, an envelope is so much simpler than trying to get a follower to do something useful.

If there’s a reason for not including envelopes on Arturia’s filters, I haven’t heard it yet.

#8

Hi again.

All in this thread till now are users. We are not from Arturia.

So what you ask for is midi note triggered envelopes.

To me it sound like you don’t know how to use the envelope followers and the sidechain feature in Filter MS-20. At least you have’nt tried it out it sounds like. You can get a percussive envelope. But keep in mind, that a filter effect can’t add more brightness to the original sound, than it allready have.

Midi triggered envelopes does’nt work with audio tracks. That could be one reason for Arturia not to include this functionality. I can see other reasons, as you for example can use an effect on FX channels, where you can’t send midi to.
How should a midi trigger envelope work with for example a Guitar or a Vocal audio signal? Or with a FX channel?

To me it sound like you wan’t to use the filters as an additional filter module for your synths, and exspect it to behave the same as your synths other filters and envelopes like in a modular system. I can understand that if so, but it would require something else than just add a midi triggered envelope to the effect plugins you mention.
Also keep in mind that the effects does’nt have a voice structure to have envelopes triggered per note/ polyphonic.

But feel free to create a feature request.
I would’nt mind having the option to use where it’s possible.
Just keep in mind, that you also would have to set your host up to send midi note messages to an effect plugin. So i don’t think it will be less work than using the sidechain option like i suggested to create another envelope than the main audio output can create with the Envelope follower.