Disappointment with Keylab MK3

Lab KeyLab
#61

To play devil’s advocate though, it’s irrelevant that they are at different price points, because Arturia do not offer a more expensive controller. With a limitless budget to spend on an Arturia midi controller, your options are controllers that haven’t really expanded on core functionality in 14 years.

It’s hilarious to me that you still can’t even buy an Arturia midi controller capable of fully utilizing their own VSTs, chiefly the CS80V with its poly aftertouch capability. You have to buy a 25-key Microfreak and not use 99% of its potential as a synthesizer, and live with a keybed that’s like a Stylophone on steroids.

1 Like
#62

For a minute, (a desperate hopeful minute) after hearing Arturia released an ultra version of their Keylab MK3, I actually thought it would have all (or most) of the features that I and many had hoped for and mentioned in my original post. Brother, was I wrong. The only thing different was the orange colour and black side panels. How does that magically make the controller “ultra”? Please Arturia stop tinkering around the edges of a product and produce a higher end model. Judging by the original disquiet the Keylab MK3 received, many will still thank you for it. Orange and black may be striking but it’s not a replacement for features. Currently, this is the most viewed thread on this site by a mile, so this subject still resonates.

4 Likes
#63

Yep. While they give us garish colours that look like someone toggled ‘invert colours’ in Windows or MacOS, still we wait for an Arturia controller that actually fully supports the functionalities in their own software synths, such as poly aftertouch. It doesn’t matter if competitors’ products with poly-aftertouch (and other premium features) cost more than the KeyLab: the KeyLab is the most premium controller Arturia offer. It’s not possible to spend more. They’re literally telling us in a roundabout way to buy competitors’ midi controllers in order to use Arturia software to its fullest extent. How is that not embarrasing for a company that’s onto Mk3 of its premium midi controllers.

3 Likes
#64

I concur. What’s even more ironic, is many users who criticise Arturia on this subject, do so in the forlorn hope (yes… hope) that the company will make us eat our own words and produce this much wanted product, but alas their ears seem insensitive on the subject.

Now I am just waiting for their release of the… Keylab MK3 “Extreme” and Keylab MK3 “Mega” (the same keyboards, but in Lime green and Rose gold). Your move Arturia!

2 Likes
#66

It’s too much at this point.

we all need to band together and join a consumer association.

Every country has laws Arturia doesn’t seem to care about them

so it’s up to us to unite now

#67

OK so I’m as miffed as the next person that their flagship keyboard range still doesn’t have the features I would like it to have in order to use even just their own software to its fullest extent…but are you for real? What laws exactly do you suggest they have broken?

#69

if someone like Arturia plugin they are working better on Native keyboards.

Still a kind of really clear conclusion…

Arturia is doing politics with instrument and workflow this is the end i think
and just look at their curves on internet,
they thought covid sales was for them ahaaha
now every thing is ending sloooowly, but i assume that’s it’s the end for Arturia things will change at some point… and if Inmusic can make everything works well please do it fast before no one wants to buy you…
this is the game of asking people what does they want and build something for you room musician vision, i would hate so much to be a Dev forced to make that low level firm…

#70

So…to sum it up…you feel there are features missing that you think it should have as a premium midi controller. Get to the end of the long queue.

But you’ve not presented any evidence at all that they have broken any laws. Your suggestion in post 65 that they have, is a cross between ridiculous and hilarious.

#71

Ask your lawyer mine is hilarious and musician…

what does mean full custom? to you?

full custom mean that you can set everything right? and so?

#72

Also what does mean a sustain pedal? is a sustain pedal is supposed to works? do you have a real piano without pedals? and being happy of your puchase?

a sustain pedal is supposed to sustain when you sustain notes, not yesterday or tomorrow notes, just like sustain pedal works…

so if you cannot work on it you can send something for the users

Well in Europe you cannot use things that are wrong for you advertising. it’s a proper lie laws protect user against that.

a car without pedal is not working well as a piano without pedals, if your car have an issue like that the brand will do something immediately and compensate with something like guaranty extension…

#73

What would you like in priority for the next firm?

#74

There’s limits to what you can fix with a firmware patch. If the hardware doesn’t support a particular feature, such as poly aftertouch, then no firmware patch is going to suddenly turn it on. That’s why I was so disappointed.

#75

I appreciate everyone’s enthusiasm on this topic but in relation to legalities, no actual laws are being broken, just poor development choices which in the long term will hurt Arturia’s premium controller market, which they should be taking advantage of since the situation with Native Instruments is still “unclear”. They certainly have the capability to innovate and bring new models to the table (the latest being the MiniFreak 49 and before that the Astrolab 88 and 37). However, there seems to be a reluctance to offer a higher end controller. Unfortunate as that is, Arturia is a private company exercising their legitimate right to make a poor or baffling decision (in my opinion) compounded by their silence (which again, is their legal right). We, have the right of choice as consumers, though sadly for us this area the market is restricted, but maybe not for much longer.

Now, if you want polyphonic aftertouch or MPE added to your monophonic aftertouch keyboard there are a couple of options. The first is the PPG plugin (no, not that PPG plugin) this one is created by Tim Shoebridge and costs $19 from the Cherry Audio store. The second is mpe-emulator which I believe is still free. See this link… Release v1.2.4 · attilammagyar/mpe-emulator · GitHub The third is called MPE-FOR-ALL See this link… My FREE MPE Tool Just Got an Insane Update | New Features Revealed | Juan Pestana Music on Patreon Being software the process is not exactly the same and all have their quirks but they might work for you until the real thing rears its beautiful head. However, it does show a firmware option is “sorta, kinda” possible with some quirks and oddities. I am new to these too. When I have the time I will try them. Regards to all.

1 Like
#78

Oh i didnt’ know about thoses tools i will give them a try, thank you

#79

Sorry but this is absolute nonsense. It’s your responsibility as a buyer to determine if the product you are buying is going to meet your needs.

Most countries have trading standards that give you a cooling-off period, particularly for something you maybe bought remotely, which allows you to return it within a reasonable amount of time (I think EU and UK is 14-30 days variably depending on the product), should you decide it’s not for you. I don’t know where you live, but if your country or territory does not, campaign to get better trading standards rather than blame Arturia that you bought something that doesn’t meet your needs because you poorly researched it and poorly interpreted its capabilities…

You’ve told Arturia they are lying about their product across various posts on their own 100% official forum. I’m not sure that you realise this could be legally considered libelous. And you wouldn’t win.

#80

Consider talking to your equivalent of trading standards or citizens advice if you aren’t getting anywhere with genuine grievances regarding faults.

#81

They delete the post maybe something was true as there was no insult or anything out of the terms of this forum

How do you use a master midi keyboard? how does people use user preset in midi since decades?

does the instrument is a Keyboard? like Master midi keyboard?

Look on the market every master keyboard have midi channel per mode, this is why we make mode dude, and they never say that’s full custom because normaly midi gear are full custom because they are midi gear and then you can normaly set every bouton to a different cc or what you want just look m audio novation native since 20 years

Do you know about the regression of midi gears those last years?

So Novation should add a keyboard for the launchcontrol, and we can set the midi channel of the keyboard and not the knobs? lol

Well for sure it’s tricky, but trapping people have limits, we can accept or protect other user from a false full custom with a midi keyboard that you cant set in user mode,
this is not how we implement midi dude

So asking Arturia stop saying it’s full custom is pretty fair, or make it, we are just talking about keys for a keyboard that’s lunar…

I also always said that the midi channel for keys in user mode are the only thing that make it a toy regarding to midi, and with that it would shine on the market, i dont care about any other fix, im asking the basic midi implementation since midi exist…

Also in this new world of programing with IA why they dont just open source the firmware?
It’s 1o per mode, if there is a game in the firm we are not missing place…

I don’t understand maybe people are just not using midi, i have a complex midi rig

Also you know it’s the most resell gear of Arturia, i thing people that still go it was just trusting Arturia tat can fix it so easily…

How do you control many Arturia synth with this? lol
Do you try Arturia plugins on Native gear?
Why it’s better?

Why every other brand and olders models dont say full custom but are full custom as midi is supposed to work?

As there is legacy conformity to respect when 2 midi gears have the same poor implementation of midi
you cannot say that the expensive one is full custom if it’s not.

Ask any Eu lawyer or jurist, or ask your favorite Ai, idont like them for anything else than coding, but ask many AI

i won’t loose more time for this topic, people who knows know what midi is making for as technology
the one who believe that Arturia can fix it are still arguing, and the other ones already sold it

more than 2 years later…

#82

I refer you back to my post of 21 October…join me in the Q of people who were disappointed that this (then) new premium controller lacks facilities that I consider should be on a premium controller. But the suggestion that you were mis-sold or lied to, and so consequently are entitled to legal reparations, just because (e.g.) Arturia’s definition of fully customizable and your definition of fully customizable are different, is unreasonable and you would lose that battle.

But there seems to be other things going on. You’ve hinted that your controller is faulty, and that it hasn’t been repaired properly, and that Arturia have lost the box. These are concerns disassociated from your general disappointment, which you need to raise appropriately with Arturia, and if you don’t get anywhere, go and consult either a legal representative or your country’s equivalent of trading standards.

2 Likes
#83

Subject: Formal clarification request — KeyLab mk3, “full custom” marketing and absence of per-mode MIDI channel

Hello,

I am posting this as a formal clarification request on the record.

To avoid any confusion: I first purchased a KeyLab Essential mk3. I then purchased a KeyLab mk3 specifically because it was marketed as “full custom” , and I expected that this level of customisation would include, on the keyboard itself, the ability to assign a MIDI channel per mode . That is the reason for my purchase.

In actual use, the KeyLab mk3 does not provide a MIDI channel per mode on the keyboard. This is not a subjective preference or a minor convenience. It is a functional limitation that directly affects the ability to control different MIDI destinations according to the selected mode. For users who rely on per-mode MIDI channel assignment, this is an essential feature.

I am therefore challenging the gap between the product presentation and the actual functionality. The expression “full custom” is an allegation concerning the essential characteristics of the product and its fitness for the intended use. If the KeyLab mk3 does not allow a MIDI channel to be assigned per mode on the keyboard, then that limitation must be stated explicitly, visibly and unambiguously. It cannot be left to consumers to discover after purchase.

For reference, the relevant provisions of the French Code of Consumer Law are as follows:

Article L217-3 of the French Code of Consumer Law
“The seller delivers goods that conform to the contract and to the criteria set out in Article L. 217-5. The seller is liable for defects of conformity existing at the time of delivery […] which appear within a period of two years from delivery.”

Article L217-4 of the French Code of Consumer Law
“The goods conform to the contract if they meet, where applicable, the following criteria:
1° they correspond to the description, type, quantity and quality, including in particular as regards functionality , compatibility, interoperability, or any other characteristic provided for in the contract;
2° they are fit for any special use sought by the consumer, made known to the seller no later than at the time of conclusion of the contract and accepted by the seller […]”

Article L217-7 of the French Code of Consumer Law
“Defects of conformity which appear within a period of twenty-four months from delivery […] are, unless proven otherwise, presumed to have existed at the time of delivery […]”

Article L121-2 of the French Code of Consumer Law
“A commercial practice is misleading if it is committed in one of the following circumstances: […]
2° where it is based on false allegations, indications or presentations, or presentations likely to mislead, and concerns one or more of the following elements: […]
b) the essential characteristics of the goods or service, namely: their substantial qualities […] their fitness for purpose […]”

Subject to the court’s assessment, the consequences are as follows:

  1. The product must correspond to its description, including in terms of functionality .
  2. The “full custom” claim cannot be used to suggest a level of customisation that the product does not actually provide.
  3. The absence of per-mode MIDI channel on the KeyLab mk3 keyboard is a serious conformity issue with regard to the expected use and the product communication.
  4. For 24 months, it is for the professional seller to prove that the defect did not exist at the time of delivery, not for the consumer to prove the opposite.

I therefore request that Arturia answer publicly and clearly the following questions:

  1. Does the “full custom” claim include, yes or no, the ability to define a MIDI channel per mode on the KeyLab mk3 keyboard?
  2. If not, why is this limitation not stated explicitly, visibly and unambiguously in the essential product specifications?
  3. Does Arturia acknowledge that the absence of per-mode MIDI channel may make the product unfit for the use sought by certain users?
  4. Is a firmware correction planned? If so, within what timeframe and with what written commitment?
  5. If not, what conformity solution does Arturia offer to affected purchasers?

I am not asking for a vague answer such as “the product works as designed”. I am asking for a factual, precise and on-the-record position on the presence or absence of the per-mode MIDI channel function on the KeyLab mk3, and on the exact scope of the "full custom”claim.

I retain all purchase evidence, product pages, marketing materials and correspondence. This message constitutes a formal request for clarification and, where applicable, a formal notice to bring the product into conformity. I reserve all rights under the French legal warranty of conformity and the rules on misleading commercial practices, in particular against the professional seller.

I await a written and reasoned response.

#84

Hi @Ben972 ,

I’m sorry you are so sad about your controller. It’s not a good place to be.

Please understand, that this mainly is a user community. Posting here is not the same as contacting Arturia.

As a user only trying to help you i can add the following…

If you think this is about legal matters, then i suggest you contact an advisor who knows about things like this to guide you. Both to understand if there is legal matters, and about what to do and how to do it.
You have to take care of your self.

That said, then can understand your frustration and complains over things you think should have been in the product. It’s fair to tell about that, which you have many times already, so please no more.
Others might not agree with you. Some might agree about having some functionality, but not that it’s about legal matters. In any case, then legal matters have to be be dealt with correctly, and that’s not through this community.

To know nore about this community please read here about what it is and more:

1 Like