Hello,
For my part, I may have been wrong to want to understand the merits of a composition that was so difficult to create.
Today, I could let myself be guided by AI, but deep down—aside from Instacomposer 2-3—I just can’t bring myself to even consider using a system where I risk losing the essence of my musical sensibility.
What about you?
What do you think?
Amitié.
It’s a thorny issue and one of the most polarising subjects in music today! And in art. And 3d. And filmmaking. And coding. And writing. And web design. And. And . . .
When people get passionate about AI, they are often talking about generative AI - i.e. the creation of new content. But there is also assistive AI, i.e. augmenting workflows to help with a task.
Personally, I don’t use AI to generate new ideas or sounds for the simple reason that I don’t need to. That sounds a bit pompous, which isn’t my intention. What I mean is I have enough musical sense (just!) to get huge satisfaction from noodling on a guitar or tinkling on a keyboard until something interesting falls out, which I then work up into a song. AI would take that away from me and make the songwriting process less satisfying.
That said, I am talking about generative AI, such as Suno. Of course there are plenty of assistive AI tools that provide utilities such as stem separation or mastering. I have used these with varying degrees of success, mostly just about acceptable, but not enough for me to want to carry on with them. I’ve also used Harmony Bloom and Eternal Arps - not AI as such (I don’t think, although it could fall under the assistive AI umbrella) but still, it wasn’t me creating the output. Certainly, I took whatever those plugins spat out and developed it into a song, but those elements were not created or imagined by me. Audio repair? Noise reduction? Should I spend hours doing it manually? Nah.
For me, where the debate gets really tricky is when you consider using AI to generate, for example, a single instrument part (or the arps I mentioned above). Some would argue that if you can’t play it (or programme it) yourself you should hire someone to do it for you. Others would argue that doing so might be out of reach for them financially, or practically. Does that mean they don’t deserve to have bagpipes in their song? Or should they take an ethical decision not to write a song with bagpipes if they can’t afford a player? What about AI vocals? To me, they’re horribly generic as an up front voice in a song, but what about for demos, or as a guide track before your vocalist turns up? Or for backing vocals? I can’t afford to pay three backing vocalists, and my voice isn’t strong enough to do the job. Does that mean I shouldn’t have backing vocals in my songs? (In fact, I run a theatre company and I have access to whole bunch of singers that help out with backing vocals, but you get the point).
And then there’s the AI -v- samples/loops debate. I very rarely use samples and the only time I used a loop (that I didn’t create) was for a conga track. I didn’t create it or perform it or even come up with the pattern. It was a free loop I found online. Would it have been wrong for me to use AI to create that part instead? What’s the difference? Or should I not have had the congas and ended up with a lesser song?
I think one of the most important things in the AI debate is disclosure: making it clear if a song is AI generated. But how do you enforce that? And does that mean you have to disclose the use of AI if a pad track or backing vocal was generated by Suno? If so, why wouldn’t you have to disclose that you mastered a song with Landr, or mixed it with Ozone? Or used Midjourney to create your album cover? or ChatGPT to write some blurb for your release? Or Gemini to remove the bass player from your band photo after you fired him?
Like I say, it’s all so polarising, and people will have very valid arguments for and against everything I’ve said above. At this point in time, there are more questions than answers. The most important thing is that as musicians, or songwriters, or producers - of any standard - we have a choice to use or not use AI. At the moment we also have a choice whether to listen to AI generated music or not. But that choice is rapidly diminishing as the lines become more blurred.
If you involve so-called AI in your music, it is not your music.
I don’t agree. Or if we consider this as a fact, then:
Making music never has been to create and control 100% of your assets.
Using AI to create pattern, chords progression, etc, is strictly equivalent to using any software or plugins that does it for you.
My call tho, this is an endless debate with no true answers.
Cheers !
I have never been glad for sample loop based music either. But i like some anyway.
I remember we in my music education school had some paper cards with bars of musical notes. They could be put together after our wishes and form a musical piece.
Using Randomness is also kind of machine driven.
I will say that it depend on what one use AI for. The music should be your own.
I can be worried that music will sound even more the same that in main stream music today. In the same beat and same … so on.
It’s a very difficult subject. It’s about where the artist put the finger on it, and when and how it can be called the artists work.
But can we call AI the artist?
Hello and thank you for your participation.
@bigblip This is a very insightful analysis, and as you said, it raises far more questions than it answers.
I found myself thinking about this after responding to a Cubase survey; the last few questions were about AI, and I have to admit that made me a little uncomfortable.
I know it’s used in FL Studio and that many DAWs will likely implement it, so will we be able to control the system?
It seems quite complicated, according to some computer scientists; I’m starting to miss my old 4-track recorder.
Thank you for this detailed analysis; it helps me better understand the future of music.
I don’t plan on using it—I bought Samuel Adler’s book on orchestration a year ago, and although I’m having a hard time getting the gist of it, it’s a real bible, and there’s a pleasure in turning the pages that AI will never have the chance to experience—that sensation of paper.
Thank you.
Best regards
Correct. Isn’t that why samples are usually attributed? Or they can be subject to copyright cases.
I’m not sure I agree. If I spend time going through chord progressions finding what works, that is my time and creativity. If I click a button that generates a song, where is the creativity?
I certainly use plugins. But I don’t use AI to create a song.
This is what will happen. A sort of slushy lowest common denominator, devoid of creativity. It sort of sounds like music, but there is something off about it. Grey music.
The bottom line is that it’s a personal choice. For me, being a writer and a composer is a deep and meaningful artistic practice . It’s who I am. Were I to allow something (or someone) to do my creating for me I would have to consider myself a fraud. My teacher used to say that the only thing an artist really has is their reputation. AI is traceable. Were it to get out that I didn’t really write my own music it would ruin my reputation and my sense of pride in what I do. Even if no one else ever knew, I would. And I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, or look others in the eye and say, “Yes I am a composer.”
The music business is in huge trouble, but the art is not. There are so many great musicians and composers practicing today. People will always be able to go listen to live music and support real musicians. We can only really worry about what we can control. But I certainly don’t want to add to the problem. If I love music, why would I do something to hurt it?
I fully understand your perspective @sillyfool312 , and although I will never have the talent that many of you possess—whether in music or in my writing, lyrics, and poetry—I would never entrust my musical visions to an intellectual exploitation system, nor would I rely on AI as a crutch; I’d rather stop right now.
My only concern—even though my work in music and writing may not be of real importance in the eyes of AI—is that the fact that one day I might no longer be the sole owner of it leaves me a bit perplexed.
Perhaps that is where there is food for thought.
We think we’re protected by organizations like SACEM, but what really happens if AI becomes unregulated and there’s no way to stop the fraudulent use of our work?
That is why I have deleted all my SoundCloud, Facebook, and Instagram accounts, keeping only YouTube for now while limiting my content and access to certain forums.
After all, this music, like my poetry, is above all an outlet, and sharing it is certainly like throwing a message in a bottle into the sea.
Musical friendship.
So are you saying that anybody that uses the session players in Logic lack creativity? They are AI.
I can’t wait to read the response.
Jord
Whether it is a tool or a crutch is more of a you issue than an AI issue. AI comes in any forms and you are more than likely using it. It’s no less creative.
Jord
Happy to reply.
Imagine you put up a track somewhere, just a Logic session musician. Would you claim that as your own? You tweak a few options., but you are not playing these instruments. You are not creating this.
That is very different from chord progressions, one of the examples I used, which date back eons.
@bearfacedcow Of course, people started using this system long before it was named.
It’s available in FL Studio, Cubase, and many other DAWs—it’s certainly been around for a good year now, dedicated to tools for composition and mastering:
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-news/tag/ai
I understand that all of this saves time for some people, a way to break out of a rut, but even
though I’m completely lacking in inspiration for both writing and music, I prefer to put all of this on hold; too bad if I’m left standing on the station platform—I’m only accountable to myself.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Imagine you put up a track somewhere, just a Logic session musician. Would you claim that as your own? You tweak a few options., but you are not playing these instruments. You are not creating this.
That is very different from chord progressions, one of the examples I used, which date back eons.
Is it now?
Aside from the obvious display of lack of knowledge about the session players in logic, your statement is highly self-serving and rather egotistical. But let’s have some fun putting that to the test.
If I make a song in Logic using only EZ Drummer, EZ Keys and EZBass, am I less creative. A simple Yes or no will suffice.
Jord
Much of these types of tools have been available for almost 15 years.
It’s all in the name of what helps you write songs faster. At least you know that choosing not to use them is on you. However, your choice of using them is not an impact to your creativity or inspiration. It is often quite the opposite when used as a tool.
Jord
Evidently you want to argue.
I will therefore cease wasting my time replying to you.
I understand your point of view and I respect it, but it’s not mine.
Maybe I’ll change my mind someday if I have an epiphany, and besides, I’m way too old to be rocking out at concerts.
And how do you use it?
Not answering is just as important as answering.
This is a mere discussion to which you can’t back it up. Calling it an argument is nothing more than a smoke screen.
I have my answer.
Jord
If you wish to argue for your limitations, I guarantee you will win those arguments. I find that I am more creative in my golden years than I was before. Not to mention rocking out to many of heroes of my youth that are still tearing up the stage doing what they love until their last days.
There are many ways that I use AI. A couple of the things that I use more often than not is smart tempo detection, as well as chord analysis. Those two alone allow me to simply play out an idea on my guitar and record it. From there, I can sketch an arrangement using Logic’s Session Players which will allow me to envision a full song idea. From there, I can record more tracks. Quite often I can go for idea to sketched arrangement in as little as 15 minutes.
That is just the mile high view of how I use AI. I also use it challenge me to come up with new ideas.
Jord
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