Speculation about “25 Years and Beyond” Event on April 9?

Sound Explorers Corner Free speech
#1

Erm… Maybe I’m not using the right keywords… Not finding a thread here about Tuesday’s event. Of course, there’s some discussion on Instagram (and elsewhere, I’m sure). Yet this Sound Explorers “community” could be the right place for discussion of what we expect.

Personally, my guess is that the event is about more than one product. Arturia has done this in the past, right? Announcing several products at once. Maybe even a significant change in the way the company works.
Which would lead to the one announcement many of us dread: subscriptions. That’d be exceedingly disappointing, especially if they push it too strongly. With 25 years of accumulated goodwill, it’d be the most efficient way to alienate the existing userbase. So, even if they can pull things off in a way that makes financial chance in the short term, it could make many of us leave the Arturia ecosystem altogether.

(I recently realized that Arturia is my main “Music Tech” vendor, for both hardware and software. In a way, I’m more invested in this ecosystem in terms of both money and time. While those products are far from perfect, I’m pleased with several of them, including Pigments and MicroFreak. It also sounds like the company’s leadership has been making the right decisions to guide the company toward a bright future. A subscription plan would break a lot of that trust I have in them.)

It sounds like people are expecting something in the 'Brute line. Makes sense. On its own, it wouldn’t necessarily qualify as so much of “a new era” awaiting us.

My deepest wish is for a desktop synth based on Pigments. The 'Freak line is interesting, in terms of hard-/software integration. However, I’m among people who much prefer MicroFreak over MiniFreak. To be honest, I find MiniFreak V rather uninspiring. And the 'Freak line misses MPE support.
A desktop version of Pigments would fulfill a deep promise in this ecosystem. Do the sound design in software. Play the patches on compact hardware, using any controller you want (including MPE ones like Intuitive Instruments’s Exquis or Aodyo’s upcoming Loom/Looom).
(Maybe even something like Analog Lab V in compact hardware.)

Updates to V Collection would be odd, in terms of timing. Unless they indicate a shift in the way we can upgrade. (This again could point towards the subscription model many of us fear. However, there are several other models which make a lot of sense.)

New controller hardware also makes sense… and could be satisfying if it adds MPE and/or MIDI 2.0 support. The time is right.

Of course, it could be about whole new product categories. The (in)famous AI revolution has yet to have a significant impact on Music Tech. A partnership with Mistral AI could make sense from a “French Music Tech” (if not Music Tech France) perspective. How would that work? Well, hopefully more about assisting us in what we want to do (say, designing synth patches) than in hyping AI-based creations. There are ways to empower us (as “Sound Explorers”).

Soooo… What do people expect/hope from the 25th anniversary?

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#2

Only subscription would lose them money.

A choice of subscription or perpetual license, well it’s their choice and I have no problem with it.

The vast majority of their customers already own the V collection suite, very few people who own this are going to chose to switch to a subscription model, they will simply keep what they have.

While there are a few old synths I would like to see reproduced, most of the famous and drooled after synths are already in the V collection.

That being the case, it would have to be a very cheap subscription model to entice most of us. I’m still on V collection 8, even with their recent sale where I could update to X for £250, for me, it still wasn’t worth it as there’s only a couple of things in it that I really want, and like many others, I own so many things from their competitors, it would probably be months until I gave the new instruments a good look at.

Maybe a Keylab mk3

Maybe they are going to announce being taken over by say Native Instruments (really hope not).

They might also be considering something along the lines of NI maschine

But we don’t know, if we speculate too much and what we wish for isn’t announced, it just leads to disappointment.

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#3

Fair enough.
Many of us tend to speculate anyway. (And do get disappointed.) Part of the fun is to do it together. And it could lead the company to reassess what they plan to do in the future.

In terms of V Collection’s offerings, there’s a thread about D-50 which may provide some insight. It’s extremely unlikely that they could pull off an agreement with Roland. There are other digital synths which could expand the lineup.

Something which could be fun is if the Augmented series were to augment (!) with a “meta” version allowing for arbitrary samples to be combined, across instruments.

A Maschine-like device isn’t out of the question and it could expand the company’s reach.
Sure hope Arturia won’t join iZotope and Brainworx under the NI banner, though. Same with inMusic, Beatport, MusicTribe, Focusrite, etc. Well, Focusrite would likely not be that bad. Just hope the Grenoble company remains independent.

Also, agreed that subs would eventually lose the company money, after a while. Some “bean counters” might think otherwise, though.
No idea what proportion of the company’s userbase currently own the full V Collection (any version). It does sound like many of us skip a major version or three. (Was upgrading until 9 and expected the whole lineup to adopt MPE and MTS-ESP. Not feeling compelled to upgrade to X under the conditions.)
The FX Collection is another interesting part of the lineup, especially now that they get into creative FX without references to legacy hardware. It’s almost like they’re getting into Bleass territory.

Oh, and iPadOS versions of some of their software would be really useful. The old partnership with Retronyms may not have convinced them that it was a great idea, though.

And it wouldn’t be surprising if they expanded the 'Fuse line. Maybe even releasing some sort of DAW. Not that it’d help much, at this point. It’d be “taking a page from competitors” (like UAD).

At any rate, we don’t have long to wait. Whatever happens, it’s likely a mix of excitement and disappointment. :wink:

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#4

Nothing wrong with a speculation thread. In the Apple world there’s a whole website for it (MacRumors).

What i’m hoping we get:

  • Mk3 KeyLabs launched with poly-aftertouch on at least the KL88.
  • There’s just been an Arturia Days sale where we’ve seen huge discounts on V Collection X. I’m anticipating the launch of VCXI, in which I’d like to see a drum-machine emulator make a much-needed return. Let’s say a ‘DrumBrute V’ combining the best of DrumBrute and DB Impact into one VST

What I’m hoping we don’t get:

  • A subscription-only model. Blur said Modern Life Is Rubbish in 1993 but they didn’t know the half of it. I’m sick of this modern world where everything is rented and nothing is truly mine, from music to films and now software apps.
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#5

I doubt Arturias method of heralding a new era; looking back and looking forward, would be used for a mere hardware or software instrument. This seems like something more fundamental is happening. I hope its not subscription as I stopped Reason+ after tiring of new instruments that failed to inspire me. Arturias swerve into the Augmented series has not found a home with me either. If anything, I would like to see a return to their origins: really good recreations of old synths with a modern twist…AND SPARK of course!

My only other guess is their own DAW. Now that would be something.

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#6

It could be. What would be the differentiator?

Was thinking of Arturia creating a DAW because of UAD. If I get this right, Luna’s differentiation is that the UAD plugins run directly on their audio interfaces. With the 'Fuse line, something similar could happen. And the Unique Value Proposition could be compelling, given the number of plugins Arturia releases (including the FX Collection).
Still, switching DAWs is difficult enough to do that it’s a tricky strategy to implement for an incumbent.

Besides, there’s a contingent of us who like to avoid DAWs in a number of situations. (Especially on stage.)

I’d feel better with a plugin host, à la AUM, GigPerformer, MainStage, Hosting AU, etc. More in line with performance contexts. Then again, it’s not clear to me that Arturia’s so focused on performance.

There are other DAWfree modes which could fit the Arturia world, including hardware seqs. Part of the reason people enjoy the 'Step series is that step seqs and CV out can replace DAWs in a number of contexts. Modular racks might be too niche for the bigger part of Arturia’s market. They still lead to other ways to make music without DAWs.

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#8

Continuing on your idea of hosting the plugins on a new dedicated Arturia interface: it would help to free people from frequently upgrading an entire PC/Mac if the interface was doing all the hard work and only that needed to be upgraded. That would be a cost saving for the user and more money in Arturia pocket. Also, I would hope that hosting their s/w on their h/w would lead to performance boosts as they would control the design and code of both. Win/win?

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#9

I think Arturia is giving us some hints here: “… to accelerate innovation across the field, so that the barriers for anyone to discover their unique sound and musical expression are removed”.

No question, this must be about both updated software and new hardware.
My guess is that they are introducing some kind of subscription form (be that as it may), a new version of existing hardware… whatever that is… And then something that binds all this together “across the field”, a DAW?? Most likely I’m wrong here but what exactly are they hinting at, “accelerate innovation across the field”? Something brand new in the AudioFuse range? Of course the audio interface is the central part of every setup, given you are not completely dawless. At least, this has to be affordable and compact, if so.

Then there is the Keylab Mk3 question… No, I actually don’t think so this time. :slight_smile:

#10

On the one hand that would excite me, especially if it had e.g. VCXI built-in as virtual instruments. On the other hand, I feel the market is already awash with free, one-time purchase and subscription-based DAWs. I personally don’t see the gap for yet another. It would IMO be a very niche product which would struggle to gain traction. Anyone but me remember when they once sold BitWig licences with KeyLabs? And how many people use BitWig?

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#11

Hi all,

I have no idea what to come.

But to me barriers in sound exploring and creation is about things like:

  1. Midi 2.0 to get finer controlling and more controls available.
  2. Lots of ontroller pages to have a control work for all possible number of parameters.
  3. Much better integration and instant control between hardware and software, software with other software and hardware with other hardware.
  4. No jumping of parameters, when using any controls.
  5. Computer screen feedback when parameter values are changed. I don’t find small screens on keyboards very useful.
  6. CLAP format to escape the limitations and quirks that other formats have.
  7. As low CPU usage as possible.
  8. Fast load time

Beside that to me it’s for example about having options for “normal” polyphonic aftertouch keyboards and having X/Y controls.

The layout of a control unit is also important to perform well.

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#12

Neat point! Yeah, there are many benefits. And it could work DAWfree.

Users of UAD products probably use these as rationales to purchase them. Same goes with people who mainly use pedals and other pieces of standalone hardware for their musicking activities. (Eventide has some compelling products in that category… as do all makers of standalone synths.)

The 'Fuse line is interesting. I use the MiniFuse 2. No idea if it has unsuspected hardware which would allow for any level of plugin-like DSP (as opposed to the kind of DSP needed for basic interface functions). It’d be quite surprising if it did. The AudioFuse part of that line would be a better bet. An AudioFuse interface could become a standalone device, similar to a pedal. Program it using a web interface. You have something like MOD/MODEP. Or use it in conjunction with AU/VST3/CLAP plugins running on macOS+Win11, the way MiniFreak V interfaces with MiniFreak hardware.

If a product like this does come out of Arturia’s lines, it’d be difficult for the company to restrict it to a subscription plan. They could, however, avoid some of the issues with subs if they were to add such a plan for new users and maintain the current licensing model for us. (Since the company has been pretty good at bringing updates to plugins we already own, that wouldn’t be out of character with the existing structure of the company.) Collections are bundles for lifetime purchases, with loyalty offers. Upgrades need to be compelling. A reasonable (and nonexclusive!) subscription model could work for certain people, in certain situations. The hardware needs to maintain its capabilities (it’s the basic point of it). Even if people “rent” the plugins, their projects aren’t jeopardized.

In other words… The more I thinking about this UAD-like model, the more I like it. Especially since, unlike UAD, Arturia treats plugin management properly. (Not only is ASC among the least frustrating software managers out there in Music Tech, it remains possible to download individual installers. UA Connect has been one of the most frustrating software managers out there, though it sounds like they improved on one specific part of the experience as it’s now easy to tell how to quit the app.)

Agreed.

Even DAWfree setups can benefit greatly from an audio interface of some kind. In the Eurorack world, it takes many forms, of course. And it’s been something of a trend that hardware modulars will interface with computers running Windows or macOS. Some systems work well with single-board computers (Raspberry Pi) and other embedded Linux systems. So… A versatile audio interface could likely run without traditional “Digital Audio Workstation” software.

Didn’t realize that used to be a thing. (Was never interested in KeyLab. When I first got into BWS, Nektar and Roger Linn were the ones I knew who bundled 8-Track.)

Good question. It’s pretty obvious that the number is increasing quite rapidly. Not that it’s a mass exodus from Live, especially since Ableton added MPE in Live 11 and released Push 3 not long before Live 12. In my experience, it sounds like it’s more about new DAW users, people who use multiple DAWs, and people who switch from the long list of DAWs which aren’t developed in Berlin. :wink:
At this point in BWS history (10 year in), it feels like it was "the right horse on which to bet”. Talking with a large number of Live users, what I hear is that they kinda wish they had switched to Bitwig, back in the day. It’s too late, now. They’re too invested. And they enjoy some of the things which come from the efforts, time, and money they put in a Live Suite and M4L system. Maybe they bought a Push 3 Standalone and haven’t returned it or sold it. Some are (becoming) Ableton Certified Trainers. Or they teach Ableton in college. Yet they’re Bitwig-curious enough that our discussions aren’t debates.
(I personally think that both systems are fine for different needs, despite apparent similarities. I have no intention of switching to Live, though I briefly thought about it when P3S was just released.)

I really like your list and the way you’re thinking through this. (Hadn’t focused on the “barriers” part of the announcement. In retrospect, it was likely significant. If you release a new PolyBrute or Keylab and talk about “barriers in sound exploring and creation”, you better bring features which really address key painpoints. In fact, it makes me think about patch management, which has clearly been on the minds of designers working for Arturia. The patch browsers for Arturia software have gone through some iterations. While they’re better than average, my UX Researcher mindset prevents me from saying that they’re optimal, at this point. Eliminating barriers to sound exploration can involve AI-like capabilities, à la Synplant. Or it could mean improvements to interfaces on Arturia hardware, including MIDI 2.0 controllers and synths.)

YES! You’re singing my song.

+1 insightful

That’d be neat! Would go well with DSP advancements, actually, since CLAP plugins work better in multithreading. Not holding my breath on this one, though.

In fact, I’m not holding my breath about anything that Arturia might introduce in 22 hours. Just having fun thinking about all sorts of possibilities.

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#13

Would love to see a new synth/workstation. Basically a keylab mk3 with analog lab built in - chuck in a sequencer, a nice 8+ inch screen and a built in audio interface., perhaps a spark for some percussion.
Unlikely but there’d be a market!

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#14

With regards to subscription, I wrote the following in a studio one Facebook group where the poster loathed all subscription models.
———————
Depends what software it is, I’m still using photoshop cs4 that I bought outright years ago and it does everything I want, likewise my ms office 2007 does everything I want.

No way I would subscribe to either of those.

I subbed to Studio one paying monthly because I wanted a good few months to see if I got on well with it. I’d rather pay £60 over 3 months and if I found I didn’t like it, I’d only lost £60 rather than the full price.

I like it a lot and my DAW is one piece of software where I am interested in having the latest version, plus the price of subbing monthly, it’s still only £240 a year, cheaper than buying it outright.

Plus I wanted notation software, having Notion included in the subscription makes it a no brainier for me.

I’m not a big fan of the subscription model, for example I own Native Instruments komplete 14 collectors edition and Arturia V collection version 8.

I haven’t upgraded Arturia to version 9 or X as everything I want is in v8. Likewise if NI comes out with komplete 15, I’m in zero rush to upgrade.

So a subscription model for them is just me throwing money away for updates I don’t need.

But for me personally, the presonus subscription model is actually saving me money and it is one of the few pieces of software that I do want to keep up to date.

#15

Quite fair.
It’s a situation in which people tend to tell you what you want, which is a recipe for disaster, in my experience.
There are ways to do subs well. An important part, there, is to still provide other options. And to do everything possible so that your existing users don’t feel alienated. Adobe’s move from CS to CC gave us a textbook example of massive discontent which could have been avoided. To this day, a lot of the pressure they get comes from this mood. Chances are, the Figma purchase would have worked had the mood been different. In fact, it’s quite clear from official statements that Figma itself has depended a lot on Adobe-focused discontent. Would Adobe be a more powerful company if they had handled the move to subscription in a more thoughtful way? Maybe not. The world would be a better place, though.

Back to Music Tech, subs can make a lot of sense for a number of people in different contexts. New users are a big part of that, especially if we think of learners without a steady income and trying to appropriate the tools of the trade. The educational sub for Max is a neat example. It’s low enough that it encourages people to spend the significant effort needed to learn Max. Since it’s a niche product which can lead to the development of useful devices (M4L), it makes particular sense for Ableton to maintain this pricing structure.

There’s a number of plugin makers who offer large enough catalogs that one can feel as though the subscription plan is all they need. This includes BandLab, along with the usual suspects (Roland Cloud, Waves, Reason, etc.). Arturia’s dangerously close to this and someone might argue that they’ve reached that level a while ago (maybe by the time FX Collection 2 came out). As even Waves leadership has realized, a subscription simply can’t be your only option when you’re an incumbent. Just… No. Don’t do it.

An issue with subscription plans which was rarely discussed at first and has become more obvious with time: Subscription Fatigue. If you can get by with one sub, fine. Things get really concerning when you need to pay regularly for all sorts of things that you may or may not use that frequently. In fact, when times are tough (either individually or collectively), subscriptions are the first thing to drop. A financial analyst helping someone with a budget because of “solvability issues” will likely tell you to stop any payment to something like this unless you rely on it for your income (which does happen to a lot of Music Tech… just way less extensively than the “pro” hype would lead you to believe). Cutting on recurrent expenses is easier to do when they appear on a monthly statement.

A cool approach to subs is Splice’s “rent to own” model. What makes it cool isn’t just that you end up owning the full license (though that’s obviously a big feature). It’s that you can hold payments for a while, without a penalty (or access to the thing you’re renting, of course). That way, if you go through a rough patch, you might drop that expense until you can go back to making payments. If you find out that your music isn’t negatively affected, you might as well stop these payments altogether, at which point you simply rented something that you thought would be useful.

Personally, a problem I have with subs is that I don’t tend to use anything so regularly that recurring payments would feel ok. BWS’s Update Plan is an exception. It’s my main DAW (on macOS) and I do use it on a regular basis. Thing is, the plan isn’t a subscription. I own a lifetime license to BWS 5.1.7 and my license will cover a new version that they might announce before my current plan runs out. If, at that time, I decide not to get a new update plan, I’ll still be able to use the software for as long as it works. And since it’s quite stable on current platforms, I don’t expect that it’d become a problem for quite a while. Besides, I usually get a 12-month Update Plan as a deal costing less than 200CAD (ca. £115), with a high quality plugin as a bonus (for instance, that’s how I got u-he Hive 2). I find the rate of improvements to be quite compelling and I’ve now invested enough energy, time, and effort in the Bitwig system that I’m ok with making these payments every year. That might change if the rate of change slows down or if my use cases diverge too much from the BWS userbase.

There are many other ways to make subscriptions work. Actual SaaS could fit music, in certain ways. Server costs are understandable in some situations. (However, my subscriptions too both Loopcloud and Noiiz were “money out the window”, because of my approach to musicking. I was justifying them through a personal research project. In the end, I haven’t even used those samples and didn’t benefit from the cloud storage.)

All this to say… If Arturia announces any kind of subscription plan, in 17 hours, let’s hope they avoid most of the pitfalls associated with that.
If they don’t announce any kind of subscription plan, I doubt anyone will be disappointed by that.

#16

By the by, it’s interesting to know that Kirn’s in the loop, as to what will come out. Based on his overall approach, I’d expect his post to be quite subdued if he thought the announcement was underwhelming. At the same time, he’s not letting out that this will be the biggest announcement in the whole history of Music Tech.

As a result, I’m modulating my expectations in a sweet spot between “yawn” and “WOW!”.

#17

The livestream is late at night for me in Australia, so I’ll have to catch up when I wake up tomorrow. Here are my predictions, based on the announcement and their previous history and style.

First off, I agree that this will be a set of several announcements, not just one big one. Arturia has a lot of irons in the fire. Late last year, it felt like there was an announcement of a new product or update every few days. That slowed down in 2024. My bet is that they haven’t slowed down behind the scenes at all, they just saved the updates to announce in a big bang. So, I expect we’ll see both updates and new products, hardware and software, across the price range.

I have heard one rumour of a leaked new version of a member of the Brute range. I won’t say more, and I honestly didn’t hear many details, but I understand that posts about this appeared and were subsequently removed from other forums. My guess is that it’s real and that it’s imminent. It didn’t sound like it would carry an announcement like this on its own, however.

It’s too soon to expect major V Collection or FX Collection bundle updates. V Collection X was only in December, and they usually wait more than a year between V Collection releases. The last three FX Collection releases were in June. On the other hand, Arturia routinely releases new plugins in between V Collection and FX Collection bundle releases. We’ve already saw Efx MOTIONS in October and Efx REFRACT in December. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a new emulated vintage effect. We haven’t seen any new virtual instruments since V Collection X, so we could get at least one of those, too.

I’m hoping for some firmware updates. In particular, for the AudioFuse 16Rig. I’m more or less happy with mine, but there are a few less-important but half-baked features that I’ve posted about elsewhere in this forum. Maybe wishful thinking, but it would be nice to see these improved. I think the timing is right for a MicroFreak update, but they might be reaching the limits of its hardware capabilities. It has been a long time since a MatrixBrute update, but I fear this synth may have been forgotten.

This being Arturia, I’m betting on some special edition releases of existing hardware with new colourways. Maybe not the most exciting thing, especially for existing owners, but it’s one of Arturia’s signature moves. I quite liked the look of last year’s MicroFreak Stellar. Another run of those or Stellar editions of other hardware would fit in with the space-themed announcement.

On to bigger things: like a lot of people I’m looking forward to KeyLab MkIII. An updated screen and USB-C seem obvious but not too exciting. I’d love polyphonic aftertouch, and MIDI 2.0 seems like good future-proofing, but I’m not really sure what it does for us in the short term. These features may be too esoteric to be the focus of an announcement. I would love to see the Morphée and ribbon controllers make their way from the PolyBrute into the KeyLab.

The big question is whether we’ll see standalone Analog Lab hardware. It would make perfect sense to integrate this into the KeyLab, and it would certainly be popular, especially for gigging keyboard players. I have no doubt that Arturia must be working on this, and the question is whether the price/performance balance is there with current technology. I think it may be, given what we’ve seen from other manufacturers lately. I have no need for this personally, however, so if this is planned, I hope that they keep a lower-cost controller-only version alongside the standalone one, much like Ableton did with Push 3.

I have more doubts about FX hardware. To me, making an AudioFuse with built-in DSP just doesn’t make much sense at this point. They only recently introduced a new high-end flagship interface in the 16Rig, and it doesn’t contain DSP hardware. Modern computers are powerful enough that the benefits of dedicated DSP hardware just aren’t there, except in the most intensive professional use cases. That’s not Arturia’s usual target market. Arturia really tries to make broadly appealing products, and the specialist users of DSP hardware aren’t likely to want to experiment with a less-established brand in that space. Even Universal Audio has been moving into a more mass-market direction with its native plug-ins and Volt budget interfaces. On top of that, most people don’t want to replace their audio interfaces very often, so if they do make FX hardware, it would be better to put it in a pedal or desktop module form factor that can be easily integrated into an existing studio. This is quite a saturated market, and might not play to Arturia’s strengths very well, but I could be surprised.

It has been a long time since we’ve seen a new drum machine from Arturia. Given that they have been doing more with hardware/software hybrid workflows recently with PolyBrute Connect and MiniFreak V, something like a new Spark would make a lot of sense, especially if it could also run standalone.

I’m also hoping for an Arturia mixer controller, particularly one that integrates seamlessly with the AudioFuse 16Rig and other AudioFuse hardware.

The wording of the announcement does suggest something very new and unexpected, however, and I think the predictions that it could involve AI/ML seem plausible. I’m uneasy about this, but it might be unavoidable at this point in time. I’ll try to be open minded.

I don’t expect a subscription model, at least not for existing products. I also don’t expect any merger/acquisition announcements. If these things were happening (and I hope they don’t) this wouldn’t be the way to announce them. We’ll see!

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#18

Fellow Australian here! Nearly feeling like waking up in the middle of the night to watch it live!
Without question hoping for the Keylab 88 Mk3 with some great new bells and whistles.
I actually noticed a “sale” graphic onthe Mkii…but then that may have just been hopeful thinking!! There is certainly room for some great improvements on the Mk3…colour touch sceren etc…while still hopefully retaining the drum pads and various sliders and faders on the Mk2!

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#19

Yeah whoops I thought it was about a year ago. You’re right VCXI won’t be with us for a long time yet then. Which is kinda sad, considering it means the upcoming ‘big announcement’ likely won’t give us any new software such as a Drumbrute V.

#20

It still might! MiniFreak V was released well before V Collection X, for example.

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#21

I know, right. Live stream times can be pretty brutal. At least this one isn’t so bad. I think it was 2am here on the east coast.

But damn US streams can often be somewhere between 3-5am, Apple would be one of those.