PianoV goes out-of-tune at random or when rendering to MP3/WAV in FL Studio

Software Instruments Piano V
#1

Piano V (Vcollection9) goes “out-of-tune” when saving the project as an audio files (mp3 or wav).

If I have a song in a project, and it sounds good (sounds like normal 440hz tuning) and I render it to WAV or MP3, the resulting file is WAY out-of-tune. It is easily heard! And the playback within FL is also out-of-tune after having rendered the project to a file.

I can provide a VIDEO of this behavior. And also the very FL PROJECT used to make the video (using only FL plugins and PianoV / Analog Lab V).
But as a new user, I will be careful with links, so I can provide it in a later post.

What happens:
At first the project playing correctly, then if I save/render the project as MP3,
the project then starts playing out-of-tune, the resulting rendered MP3 file is out-of-tune, and my basic fix to get the
project back-in-tune is to manually select each instance of Piano V, and play a few notes on the midi-keyboard, then select next instance, play a few notes, and repeat with all instances.
This gets it back in tune - until I try to save again, or until it randomly goes out-of-tune when hitting PLAY in FL.

My tested solutions:
I have a lot of other synths (where I use the same MIDI-KEYBOARD, same FL, same PC, and they all render perfectly to MP3/WAV) and they never randomly go out-of-tune. Like Arturia Pigments.

It is also NOT the MIDI-KEYBOARD as I have tested it with MIDI-MONITORS, and NO bugs found in my KORG PA1XPRO midi keyboard.
(Also: if that were the case, the other synths I have would also render out-of-tune like Piano V does…)

Anyone with experiences with random de-tuning in PianoV?
Any help is appreciated!!

Info:
Product: V Collection 9
Version: Newest Ver of both - Downloaded 05july2023 via ASC.
Host: FL Studio 21 (v21.0.3 build 3517) All Plugins Edition, 64bit.
Using: VST
OS: Windows 10

#2

And here is the problem, in video format, so you can both see and hear it!

Video showing the de-tuning as it happens:
(web-video-player) -Arturia-Detune-PianoV3-AnalogLabV-Problem.mp4-

#3

I just did a quick test with Cakewalk by Bandlab, creating a simple phrase and exporting to a mp3 file and Wav file. Both files played correctly and in tune.

Using two tracks. Piano V3 and Op-X V

Does this issue happen with a simpler project? (Say with a single instance of Piano V3 and one other Arturia synth)

What happens if you export to a Wav file?

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#4

With this project, it happens on both WAV and MP3. And it happens EVERY TIME when I save/export to either WAV or MP3.

I made a new song, using the same FL Template file, just now, with 4 instances of PianoV, also with the same way of doing sustain automation as I did in the De-tuned project.
This time it renders correctly on both WAV and MP3.

So this error happens randomly, on random projects, and so far only using PianoV, either directly in the PianoV plugin, or when using PianoV presets in AnalogLabV plugin.

All the other Vcollection9 plugins have so far behaved without de-tuning.
I made a big project with 8 instances of “Augmented Strings” and that behaved perfectly, both alone, and with other synths.

So far the error ONLY happens with PianoV. And not all instances of PianoV goes out of sync, only like 1 or 2 of 4 (as in the project I shared the video of)

Did you see the video, where you can see what happens?

#5

On the project where this detuning happens, have you confirmed that there are no pitch bend or CC events (that are not CC64) being sent to the Piano V track that could be causing this.

Maybe insert a pitch bend = 0 MIDI event before any Piano V notes.

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#6

Yes, I mentioned that in the first message, no CC64, no pitch-bends.
If that were the case, it would also have affected the other synths I used in the same song. And it didn’t.

I’ve also tested my midi keyboard, using a midi monitor, it is not sending anything randomly.
I recorded a film clip earlier today, to show just that, and also to show that even though the pitch change introduced is “permanent”, until I do that move that fixes it. The plugins shows NORMAL values on all the pitch bendable knobs, and then midi settings are also always the same.
So the error happens inside of the plugin, and it does not “show up” on the knobs, even though I would have to move the tuning knob from 440hz to 451hz to reproduce that sound (when it all works normally) - So that is something clearly visible on the knob (if you try it on your own Piano V).
My tuning knobs (on all instances) stands at 440hz, while it is playing 451hz (at the moment).

So it happens only “under the hood” so to speak, and only at the time of export (to wav/mp3). It is not reflected live in the plugins settings.

#7

Is there any good way of automating that? As dong it manually is going to kill all my inspiration, and leave me with zero completed songs.

#8

I meant in a track where the detuning happens, place a single pitch bend = 0 MIDI event.

In any case, I am not having this issue.

Maybe drop a note to Arturia support so they can see if they can reproduce it at their end.

1 Like
#9

I did contact them, but haven’t heard back from them after their first confirming email (that they received my ticket) so that is why I used the forum instead, hoping someone else had the same experience, and could explain how to fix it, so that I could finish the song, sooner rather than later!

I’ll see if I can figure out how to do the “pitch bend=0 midi event” in FL studio, and make it work for all instances.
I’m thinking, creating an automation, and connect all instances to that, I’ll see if that works. If not I might have follow up questions, he he!

Thanks for all your help, and your swift reply’s so far, Promidi! Great stuff!

#10

I tried with automation, so I set up automation, to always keep the tuning-knob at 440hz, and that did not produce a different result.

I made a video, as mentioned, earlier today, and I have now edited it shorter, but this shows quite clearly the settings before the bug, during the bug, and after I make the bug go away again, so here one can clearly see it is not visually affecting any settings, no knobs are turned, nothing. But it clearly also goes out of tune. Only 1 of 3 instances goes out of tune, so the bug is interesting, and weird, to say the least.

Here is the video:
https://alexdata.org/ZITE-VIDEO/index.php?video=Arturia-PianoV-DeepDiveIntoTuningError.mp4

#11

Does FL Studio allow you to see individual MIDI events that are in a given track? (For its price, I can’t imagine not being able to)

#12

It allows me to see these events (see picture below: here I have recorded some random notes with my midi-keyboard).
I must admit I am no MIDI expert, and I have never been in need of seeing each event sent to amd from my midi-device before. As the notes, the pan, the velocity, and the normal values have worked, and gave me the result I actually played. So until this out-of-tune experience, (for several years) I have not been in need of knowing MORE about the midi-events than that most basic layer of it.
So to know if there is a list of midi-events (similar to a midi-monitor) I must read up in the manual.

MidiEvents
MidiEvents1920×1080 400 KB

#13

Strictly as a test, and on a backup copy of your project, can you replace those piano parts where the detuning occurs with a non Arturia piano to see if there are stray pitch bend events therein.

If you do this, make sure you use a piano VST that you know responds to pitch bend events.

If it happens in that non Arturia piano, then you know it’s likely to be a stray pitch bend in the track.

This is where an Event List view would be handy.

The other way Arturia Piano V3 could sound out of tune is if the “Age” parameter (in Piano V3, Advanced settings > Strings) is somehow being activated. However, by default, this parameter is not mapped to any CC (worth confirming that on your end though).

I must admit, I am a little stumped (and I do not use FL Studio)

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#14

I can perform that test, no problem! Will take me a moment.
Do you just want me to tell you the result of the test, or should
I make a video of it?

#15

I did another test just now, before answering your last message.

I downloaded a MIDI MONITOR VST plugin, and routed the midi input from my physical midi-keyboard, through that plugin, to another plugin instrument that played the data monitored.

I noticed that FL sends MIDI data when I press PLAY/PAUSE and STOP.
I also noticed that it does the same on EXPORT.

Here is that MIDI MONITOR video:
https://alexdata.org/ZITE-VIDEO/index.php?Arturia-PianoV-MidiMonitorWithinFLstudioToGrabData.mp4

#16

Just the results.

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#17

What would be handy is if you could replace the detuned Piano V3 with MIDI MONITOR, press play on your project to see what the track itself is sending.

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#18

pianoteq6
pianoteq61920×1080 265 KB

I replaced them with “PianoTeq6” plugin, and I also mapped the sustain the same way as before, on the same project.
And I could render both WAV and MP3 without any de-tuning, and the project played just fine, both before and after export!

#19

I had a look at your video you did showing the events with MIDI MONITOR and those events are interesting.

Those CC6, CC38, CC101, CC100 > 0 events are RPN commands that , with General MIDI instruments set pitch bend range to 0.

With those events as presented, on a Roland GS or Yamaha XG synth, the result should be no pitch shift. Those CC6, CC38, CC101, CC100 > 0 events would set the pitch bend range to zero - causing the actual pitch bend events to have no effect.

I used Cakewalk, to send the same event to Arturia Piano V3 and got the following results,

Arturia Piano V3 is responding to these events differently. Arturia Piano V3 is being pitch down.

The pitch bend > 8192 is supposed to bend the pitch up 2 semitones but on Piano V3, it pitches it slightly higher, resulting in the Piano V3 sounding out of tune.

So, in essence, I am getting a similar result to you in Cakewalk by Bandlab and Arturia Piano V3.

What you need to figure out in FL Studio is to find a way to get rid of those CC6, CC38, CC101, CC100 events and those pitch bends.

1 Like
#20

Ohh, wow! We’re actually getting somewhere now, I like this!
I KNEW the PianoV plugin was responding incorrectly, all my tests (beforehand) led me to believe so, and all these deep-dives of today, confirmed it!
Super thanks for your time and effort so far, Promidi!
Really apprecieated!