I can add some additional context here as well. I have been back and forth with Arturia support asking them how the relative modes are supposed to work with Ableton Live. I have been unable to get a clear answer from them aside from “relative 1” should work with “value scaling mode” in Ableton.
To be honest I have yet to test this since they sent that response - because I’m pretty sure I tested that combination beforehand and it didn’t work. I have asked but have not had confirmation that Arturia has actually tested this in any way that would be similar to the Implemenatation of their standard absolute mode that maps to the “Ableton Minilab 3” script default. It’s still a mystery to me why this is done this way given that the knobs are not absolute they are infinite encoders.
It’s really a shame. Not only does it not work, but you still can’t change the knobs to be relative mode for the default profile as there is nowhere to save the setting. If I use a user profile the transport controls no longer work, which is one of the things I use nonstop.
It’s a controller that was obviously never actually used in the context it was made to work in. I had a similar sort of issue with my Keylab MkII - the main encoder knob couldnt be set to launch a scene in session mode even though the encoder could select it Wha? It’s one of the first things you would do if you tried to use the controller in session mode. I don’t think anyone who knew how to use Live tested it at Arturia.
I love Arturia software products but there seems to be a serious disconnect between design and implementation with their controllers.
Hello I’m Aurélien, QA at Arturia !
There are a lot of different issues here.
I’ll do my best to help you and find a way to make it work in your workflow.
To clarify the relative modes:
They are only available in user program for now.
To use them in Ableton you have to setup your knobs in Relative mode in the MCC, store the template in a user program and then load this program on your Minilab. After that, you need to manually map these knobs to Ableton parameters and select the correct relative mode (ableton propose a lot of different modes to match with all devices).
Relative1 mode in the MCC works correctly with Relative (BinOffset) in Ableton.
Relative2 mode in the MCC works correctly with Relative (2’s Comp) in Ableton.
As it is manual MIDI mapping, they can’t adapt from a Live device to another. For that, you have to use the script.
Using Value Scaling in DAW mode:
In DAW mode, the Minilab 3 encoders are absolute, but Ableton’s Value Scaling option makes them very close to relative encoders.
To use it, go to Preferences/MIDI and select Value Scaling in the Takeover Mode dropdown.
With this mode, you’ll see that there is no jump anymore and knobs join the parameters value very smoothly.
For the transport bank which is not working in user program, we are award of this bug and be sure that it’ll be fixed in the next update.
For now the workaround is to map a pad bank manually in the MCC (for example bank B to keep the Bank A free for playing). You can use MCU message to send transport to Live as you can see on the screenshot (you also can change the pad color to have the rec pad red for example).
Aurélien,
Thank you for this. Will try these workarounds.
I think the overall consensus is that at least for Ableton - given the fact that the encoders are physically endless, there’s no sense to need to have a pickup mode in Ableton and so they should just “catch” and go regardless of the starting position. So, hopefully there will be a firmware update that allows the encoders to work natively endless in Ableton both in DAW and user modes.
Hey, we Cubase users are having the same problems. Endless encoders set to absolute mode instead of relative just makes zero sense and is infuriating when using it.
For now I’ve hacked the script supplied to at least put the knobs and sliders into a ‘scaled’ mode to try and avoid very very annoying jumps as soon as I touch a knob or slider.
If this hasn’t been implemented from the beginning, then I’m thinking there are real underlying problems with the hardware because why would you just not set them to ‘relative’ mode, supply a script and make your users happy?!
And yeah, really hope the team simply manage to look into implementing and putting out a firmware update with ‘relative’ encoders set and ready to go in the ‘DAW’ patch, not just the ‘USER’ patch.
And without wanting to hijack this Ableton thread, for the Arturia Cubase script the knobs had no designation and hence defaulted to jumpy values being transmitted and interpreted.
Over in the Cubase forums, someone asked if this could be changed and a couple of the users in a thread there gave suggestions, one being to set the encoders to .setValueTakeOverModePickup() but I preferred the other option for Cubase being .setValueTakeOverModeScaled()
Not ideal, but better than your implementation. But please please give us a relative encoder firmware option…
I’d like also to report that I have tried to set a Relative mode in Cubase 13 Pro, and it does not work (it gives some strange erratic moves of the corresponding controllers in GUI, but not what is expected).
Besides, I have just looked at the MIDI Center manual for Minilab 3, and neither the screenshot nor the text for knobs do not mention the dropdown list Option (with Absolute, Relative 1, 2, 3 options); the manual date is 16 November 2022.
Yes, I see it in the interface of the MIDI center: that’s why I have reported that none of the Relative modes works as expected in Cubase 12 but gives some strange chaotic results.
I have also mentioned in my previous mentioned that the manual for the MIDI center for Minilab 3 was not updated to reflect that there is the Options dropdown (Section 3.6, page 16). Hopefully, Arturia support will report it to the developement/technical writing departments.
I was also frustrated by this and took the time to fix it. Uploaded my stuff to a GitHub repo, I hope it helps somebody. Also I made a video explaining a bit, kinda ashamed of it but here it goes.
**** fixed - my bad not knowing how this works. All good now, thanks!**
**** Edit - the script doesn’t seem to like running in Ableton 12.1 Beta…
Tried running the standalone script on my MacBook M2 and I’m getting the following error.
Traceback (most recent call last):
File “MiniLab_3_AbsToRelTranslator.py”, line 66, in
File “MiniLab_3_AbsToRelTranslator.py”, line 56, in main
File “mido/backends/backend.py”, line 96, in open_input
File “mido/ports.py”, line 165, in init
File “mido/ports.py”, line 90, in init
File “mido/backends/rtmidi.py”, line 134, in _open
File “mido/backends/rtmidi.py”, line 94, in _open_port
OSError: no ports available
[2927] Failed to execute script ‘MiniLab_3_AbsToRelTranslator’ due to unhandled exception!
Following the suggestion above, simply changing it to VALUE SCALING in ableton fixed this problem. In fact, DONT use relative in midi control center… it will mess it up.
