This basically applies to all the instruments like the Easel and the Synthi where sequences just go on and on and on!?!?!?
It would just be incredibly, incredibly helpful if there was a way to trigger the sequences to either start and stop with the DAW or at a keypress, at least as an option.
The fact that many of these sequences don’t ever shut up makes me not want to use the instruments which is a damn shame. I realise this was the characteristic of the instrument, but they had different workflows back then…
But for the love of god can you please make it stop!?!?!!
Can you supply some example preset names and which synth you’re using so I can test this out?
Sequences will generally trigger from the input of a midi note, and then play until the DAW’s transport is stopped - They shouldn’t continue once you’ve pressed stop.
I agree with @Joe.Arturia that some preset names can help to reply.
I have replied you here regarding Buchla V some time ago:
Regarding Synthi V it’s similar.
You can reprogram presets to fit your needs. But it require you learn enough to use the synths.
In Synthi V - if you for example take the preset “Calm Walk”, then it keep playing after you release a key. Why? Because of the routing in the Matrix. Oscillator waveforms and the Filter is routed directly to outputs. The sound designer choose this routing.
You can route it all through the Envelope and route the Envelope to the outputs instead, then the sound will stop, when you release the keys. Then all will be to the same outputs.
You can also turn down the Channel levels or the Main level instead of change routing.
If you wan’t to stop the sound without changing the preset, then you can select the preset again, or you can use the Panic button by clicking on the CPU usage meter in the bottom panel of the application. Buchla V btw also have this Panic button.
A button to close open gates on all synths that can have open gates running after key release could perhaps help sometimes. One that can be set to react on DAW on/off messages and Key on/ off messages, and that an be automated. The problem with a "All Sounds Off"messages is exactly that all sound stop immediately - including effects sound and everything else.
Even if you hadStop Sequencers and Functions and other modulators options, then for example sounds routed directly to an output through an open gate would still sound.
In other topics in the forum people are asking how to keep the gate open without using HOLD or pressing keys. Most synths can’t. It’s a feature they can. The desires are not the same.
I would like the Functions to also work like Envelopes in this two synths. That could provide some possibilities.
Perhaps @Joe.Arturia will be kind to log this as a feature request.
You can find a few examples if you hit the Sequence filter and check out some of those presets.
For the Easel some examples would be…
Techno Not 101
Randsometalik
Deep Forest
Angles
For the Synthi…
Calm Walk
Truc11
Feedback 4 A Better Life
Some examples for the ARP…
Electro
Metal Cans
Nerv
Poursure
There would be more instruments that suffer from this problem and, of course, Analog Lab which may play host to its own nightmare patches.
Most likely there’s probably some way to patch around it, but my skills aren’t quite there yet. Then there are the other more novice users who might like the preset, but wouldn’t know the first thing about patching.
Even then, most of us are still wanting these things to play in sync with our DAWs, start when they do, stop when they do, change tonal centre when it receives a keyboard input. So some optional quality of life improvements to accomodate this would be really appreciated.
It’s important to understand, that the oscillators run all the time. So can modulators and sequencers. We only hear it, if gates are open. Even if a sequencer is stopped, it does’nt have to mean sound stops.
There is nothing wrong with the presets you mention. They are designed this way.
It’s features this synths have, that they can do this.
Only by sending a Stop All Sounds message or somehow mute all outputs can as a single thing stop all sounds or prevent us to hear any sounds in all the presets and synths you mention.
Presets might not sound the same, if they can be and are reprogrammed. But learning to understand and use a synth can help in many ways.
We also all have the choice to not use a preset or a synth.
I’m sure Arturia will take you views into account.
No it’s not broken at all, and as I have also presented, this how they were designed back then. It’s not a bug report, otherwise I would have labelled the title appropriately.
Instead, its a small “quality of life” feature request which could potentially make these synths more usable to everyone, new comers and experienced users alike.
Starting and stopping with the DAW and/or keypress doesnt have to be a rule, it could be optional. But it does have real world practical applications not just for the inexperienced, but those working production trying to build a track. It’s very hard to get anything else done when these things can go on and on. Sure we could use different preset, but thats not what inspired us in the moment.
It’s just a shame to see inspiration take a back seat to the idiosyncrasies of how synths did or didn’t behave back in the day. We don’t have to change them, but we can add a small optional feature to make them more widely usable.
Trust me. It can also be annoying to me sometimes.
What you are asking for is something more than usual. That something is what i try to approach.
There is no solution that work 100% good for all out of the box as i see it.
There will be no solution that will work for all.
Some will be annoyed if the sound stop, others if it don’t. So someone need to do something manually. Minimum for someone is a click on a button.
You already have an easy option. Why can’t you for example use the PANIC button i wrote about? It’s one click with a mouse and work in both a host an outside a host.
That said, then i would like extra envelopes, as that in some cases can help - and at the same time add new sound design possibilities.
I have no idea how Arturia will prioritize this.
EDIT: We can hope Arturia can come up with something fantastic. EDIT END
Well the panic button would be functional, but not easy ti implement musically.
I was thinking something more like a gate that uses a keypress or a DAW start/stop as a trigger.
Syncing would be ideal, but thats the part I’m not sure how they could pull it off. That might have to be left to the user to make sure the start and stop on the bar. But then again, that’s where you can just line up the key trigger to when you need it and the synth re-syncs to that. Which would leave the freedom to trigger sequences on a different beat. I’ll often do that.
I have found a few video performance examples with Buchla Easel and a Synthi without keys. It’s hardware performances i have been able to find. I think they show some ideas behind the instrument design.
The keys in the Buchla videos are mainly used to set pitch. The key off messages is not stopping everything. It would ruin the patch and the performance. Notice how gates are handled manually.
S/H Oki - Tomorrow Never Knows(The Beatles) - Buchla Music Easel Performance:
BTW: Synths like DX7 and Matrix 12 can also have the gate open all the time, so they don’t stop sounding after key release. It’s not so often i have seen them being used like that.
Yes obviously a different workflow, but not very friendly at all to the modern work environment.
Sure, you could sample it, like many do, but that limits you from making changes in the future. There are those that would see that as a good thing, making you commit to something instead of stuck in that continuous cycle of constant tweaking and change.
However, a composer should reserve the right to make change if it improves the composition on a whole. Then there is the case that if you have to accomodate feedback from film, tv or game developers than you’d be basically shit out of luck.
I can’t see why we can’t find a way to preserve the classic behaviour, but include a modern optional DAW friendly capability on top of that. Everyone is happy then.
If you for example take the Buchla presets “Cycling Rotation”, “Square Attack” and “Your Move”, then they work like you want.
If you tried to study the synths, then you would find out how much you actually can do. What to use is a design decision.
I will be happy to discuss things that’s not possible.
In many synths a envelope is hardwired to control a single available VCA output. It’s the envelope that close the gate when it receive a key off message and not the key off message it self.
Those synths can only keep it’s gate open using a HOLD function.
Some synths like have a total different concept. (Buchla Easel, Synthi and for example a Minimoog have different concepts.)
That’s why i suggest extra envelopes to control each of the outputs parameters.
That could introduce some possibilities, and even introduce some further sound design possibilities.
But again - it’s up to the sound designer what to use.
Factory presets also show possibilities in a synth, and also show the synths speciel concept and so on…
That would be even better than the triggered gate I was thinking of.
Of course my ultimate plan is to get around to mastering it. If it comes down to an arp does via the Sequential Voltage Source, then you can usually flip the trigger to keyboard. The problem is that only works a small part of the time, with the majority of the time being “well if I pull this cable it stops, but doesn’t work again” and that also poses its own problem.
The more they make it immediately usable, the more people can use it, the more it will get used, and the more copies they will sell. It’s just smart business sense. So long as you don’t screw up it’s original behaviour.
If you for example want to have presets working like in the videos i posted, then it’s not desireble or user friendly if all sounds stops at key release. Not smart at all.
As said, - you or someone else will have to change presets, if they can’t use them as they are designed. And as said, it’s good factory presets show the instruments possibilities.
Yes - It’s not that simple. The settings can give very different results. Much depend on how the preset is designed. Even the same setting can give different results.
One need to learn to use the instrument to understand what’s going on. Studying the presets can help with that. Keep the Advanced section in mind. You can do things you can’t in the original hardware Buchla Easel.
FYI: In the Synthi Video i posted, you can see the pulsating sound is done by Synthi’s speciel Envelope Shaper. The red OFF parameter. There is no way the sound in that patch in that instrument can stop sounding at key release unless an extra modulator/ Envelope can be set to make this happen. Agin that’s why i suggest to have this envelope functionality. Even then the performer perhaps would not like to use it.
You can see the Arturia Synthi preset “Bird Patch” (Mod Wheel) and see this parameter in function. Also use the Joystick that is set to control the Envelope DECAY parameter. Also try to use the Envelope OFF parameter. When fully clockwise towards MANUAL the sound stop.
Synthi have a speciel Envelope.
Try the same with the preset “Seagulls Three”.
In addition to my previous post posted after your last post. Please read both.
Since you mentioned the Buchla Ease V Randometalik preset and i’ve mention it’s not that simple, then i can tell you a way to make it work like you wish.
Select the preset.
Set the Sequential Voltage Source TRIGGER SELECT to Keyboard.
Notice that now when you play a key, then the Sequential Voltage Source play one step. Next time you play a key it go to next step and so forth.
In the blue strip above the virtual keyboard you find the Arpeggiator.
Set the Switch that’s set to None to Ascending or Random.
Set the Arpeggiation Rate knob to 1/16 note. The same rate as the Clock Rate set to the left in the same blue strip and is controlling the rate in the original preset.
Notice that now when you play and hold a key, then it play the original sequence. If you Release the key, then it stop.
Since this preset is a set to 1 note poly, then it work the same with the difference it’s started and stopped by a Key.
The same thing can be done using the RIGHT HAND sequencer in the Advanced panel instead of the Arpeggiator as trigger.
Activate RIGHT HAND section.
Add a single note and set the Sequence length to 1 step. Since onlyy the rate and trigger but no pitch is used, then the note pitch does’nt matter.
Set the Speed to 1/16.
Set the Mode to ONCE.
This is just examples. But perhaps you get an idea how complex and variated you can work in Buchla Easel V.
Yep, which is why I propose the press still behave as they do, nothing has to change. There is just an extra layer of user friendly control on top. Whether that control simply uses a gate to mute the output, or resets it, or both is a matter of detail to work out, but everything would work as intended. Unless you switch on this added control layer feature. Synths could still free run even while muted.
As I said, best of both worlds, every one is happy.
Since you mentioned the Buchla Ease V Randometalik preset and i’ve mention it’s not that simple, then i can tell you a way to make it work like you wish.
Select the preset.
Set the Sequential Voltage Source TRIGGER SELECT to Keyboard.
Notice that now when you play a key, then the Sequential Voltage Source play one step. Next time you play a key it go to next step and so forth.
In the blue strip above the virtual keyboard you find the Arpeggiator.
Set the Switch that’s set to None to Ascending or Random.
Set the Arpeggiation Rate knob to 1/16 note. The same rate as the Clock Rate set to the left in the same blue strip and is controlling the rate in the original preset.
Notice that now when you play and hold a key, then it play the original sequence. If you Release the key, then it stop.
Since this preset is a set to 1 note poly, then it work the same with the difference it’s started and stopped by a Key.
Yes I have noticed that is possible with some presets. Not that Randometalik is a sound I immediately wanted to work with, it was just provided as an example.
And yeah I do agree it’s a matter of getting in there and learning the instrument. I’m the kind of guy who would do that and I have lots of instruments on my list that I probably won’t get around to over what’s left of my Xmas break.
The problem I’m finding is as I’m working on a time critical project and I come across a sound patch that I happen to like and wish to use. I don’t have a week to dive in learn all the ins and outs of the instrument and complex patches only to find that, despite my effort, it still won’t sync with the DAW. That’s alot of valuable production time wasted.
Sure, there’s lots of other instruments you can use, alternative decisions to make, sacrifices you make because that sound, that moment of inspiration just turns out to be impossible to work with in context. Especially when a simple, modern day convenient feature could be added, that doesn’t change its original behaviour.
It just seems to me such a shame that we let limited thinking limit everyone else’s creativity.
Some extra “normal” envelope functionality would absolutely be nice to get no matter what.
And even though i can understand why the Buchla Easel V Sequential Voltage Source does’nt have a retrigger, then i think it would be nice to have that option too.
Happy new year
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