ADAT WORD CLOCK questions

Fuse AudioFuse
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#1

I have an Audiofuse 16Rig, and also just acquired a used 8Pre. I also have a Behringer ADA8200.

Following the diagram in the manual, I have the 8Pre connected to ADATs In 1 and Out 1. I have the Behringer connected to ADATs In 2 and Out 2.

I have a 75 Ohm BNC cable from the OUT of the 16 Rig to the IN of the 8Pre, I then have the 8Pre OUT BNC connected up to the single BNC port of the Behringer.

The Behringer has a switch on the back that I set to SYNC IN, which according to the manual means it should follow word clock.

In AudioFuse Control Center, I set the clock source to Internal, Sample Rate to 48khz, WordClock Termination is left at 75Ohm, and WordClock Pass Through is disabled (which I THINK is right, since the 16 Rig is the source?).

For the 8Pre, I have it set to WORD Clock, Sample Rate is grayed out, and I have Pass Thru enabled.

Unfortunately, all of the channels from the Behringer are pegged at 100% with horrid static.

Interestingly, if I flip the switch on the Behringer to “ADAT IN” as the clock source, it seems like it’s working fine.

I only see one of the “sync” LEDs lit up on the front, though.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? This is my first WORD CLOCK experience.

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#2

And here her the cable I am using to connect these:

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#3

Just a follow-up…

I seem to have resolve this using a BNC T-connector, instead of the internal pass-thru on the 8Pre.

So the 16Rigs output cable connects to the BNC T, the T is connected to the 8 Pre’s input port, and the other end of the BNC T runs to the Behringer ADA8200.

Everything seems synced up.

What finicky antiquated tech from the 90s here! (word clock, that is) :slight_smile:

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#4

This ended up not being a solution at all.

It’s still not working.

#5

Most wordclock terminators I’ve seen are 75 Ohm. Did you mean 75 when you typed 750? Likely does not matter as the 16Rig is not the end of the wordclock chain. On some older equipment (back when I used several Tascam DA78s) you had to use a BNC “T” connector at the end of the clock chain with a 75-ohm terminator cap on the open end of the “T”, the other end connected to the final device in the chain.

#6

Yes, of course, I just typo’d that. It’s 75 Ohm.

I’ve given up on the ADA8200 and instead am now using Focusrite 8Pre Dynamic.

It’s syncing up to the WORD clock much better.

I had made a little bit of progress using the AudioFuse 8Pre as the clock source, but still, something the ADA8200 would go off into space and blast me with static.

#7

Did you have a BNC T-connector on the ADA8200 with a 75 ohm BNC terminator on the other side of it

If I recall correctly Termination is needed on both ends of the chain
And While the 16Rig has this build into the unit the ADA8200 might not have this

Edit:
Been looking into the Subject a bit and it seems recommended to have a 75 ohm BNC terminator on the end of the chain (Not on both ends as I thought before)
This would also mean that the 16Rig Word Clock Termination setting is probably for the BNC In connection

#8

btw, does anyone have any experience of using the ADAT out clock (Out 1) and separately use word clock to provide clock to a device connected to ADAT In 2/Out 2?

I have a 2nd ADAT device coming that I want to connect to the 16rig in addition to my existing ADA8200. I want to use the internal clock of the AudioFuse.

The new device does not have any word clock i/o at all so needs to be plugged into ADAT 1. the ADA8200 has word clock input so i will move it to ADAT 2 on the 16rig and also wire word clock to it from the 16rig.

It should work, right? the manual doesn’t show any configuration like this.

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#9

btw, does anyone have any experience of using the ADAT out clock (Out 1) and separately use word clock to provide clock to a device connected to ADAT In 2/Out 2?

I have a 2nd ADAT device coming that I want to connect to the 16rig in addition to my existing ADA8200. I want to use the internal clock of the AudioFuse.

The new device does not have any word clock i/o at all so needs to be plugged into ADAT 1. the ADA8200 has word clock input so i will move it to ADAT 2 on the 16rig and also wire word clock to it from the 16rig.

It should work, right? the manual doesn’t show any configuration like this.

I am also wandering this …
I Currently Have A Alesis AI3 hooked up to Adat in/out 1 of my 16Rig
But if I want to add a other Unit it would Require a BNC Connection for Word Clock and it is not very clear if the 16Rig would output Word Clock to both Adat 1 and BNC at the same time (I Can also not find any settings in AFCC or AF ASIO regarding this)

#10

I have a 16Rig, a Focusrite Scarlett OctoPre Dynamic and a Focusrite OctoPre. I solved the synch problem using a Black Lion Audio Micro Clock II as a master word clock source. Although it added some to the total expense of the system, the Micro Clock sends rock solid word clock to each of the three devices using three separate 75 Ohm BNC cables. Since there is no daisy-chaining there are no termination worries. I have the Micro Clock mounted in the same rack with the two Focusrite boxes connecrted with 1ft BNC cables, the Audiofuse is on the other side of the room, however, and that BNC line is 25ft.

My problem is that everything works fine when the Audiofuse is set to “Word Clock” and “48000 Hz” (the frequency the Micro Clock is set at). When I end a session and shut down the Audiofuse Control Center, it reverts back to “44100 Hz” and “Internal Clock”. It does this every time and I have tried saving the working state in a Preset (1) that doesn’t fix things. This a pain, because the two Focustites send audio that is interpreted as high-pitch whine until I manually set the Word Clock on the Audiofuse. Am I missing something, or doesn’t the Audiofuse detect incoming word clock, or at least, provide some way of saving the settings so that it boots expecting external Word Clock?

#11

Have you tried setting it in the “AudioFuse ASIO Control Panel” as that would be the place where I would set it up instead of using the “AudioFuse Control Center”

Arturia AudioFuse ASIO Control Panel

I currently have My Alesis AI3 hooked up to Adat in/out and A Focusrite OctoPre Dynamic MkII will Arrive in the coming week so I can see if ADAT Word Clock and BNC Word Clock will work simultaneously to sync both devices
and since the Alesis AI3 doesn’t have a BNC Word Clock in or out connection it is the only way for me (That or replacing the Alesis AI3 with something else)

#12

I have no specific “AudioFuse ASIO Control Panel”, nor do I have any idea where to find it if I did. The only place I found to set it was here, and that’s inside AFCC (at least the one that came with my 16Rig)

IMG_E1840
IMG_E18401080Ă—563 122 KB

I was just about to respond to Andres from Arturia, who requested video of what I’m doing in my setup. My guess is that not a lot of people are using an ultra-stable master clock to sync their interfaces.

A long time ago I had an RME Fireface and three Behringer ADA8000s. I was having syncing problems and a guy I knew at Fly-Away Studio in Montreal suggested I use a master clock for sync. I built a 48k clock and synced everything with it. Worked great! That was about 20 years ago when I could still see pretty well and I could solder (I’m 70 now). My last studio (built circa 2018) was centered around a first gen Threadripper 16-core CPU, Cubase, and a Focusrite 18i20/OctoPre audio system. That system used ADAT sync, and with only two units being synced I thought that a master clock would be overkill.

The reason I purchased the 16Rig was because, since I retired five years ago, I’ve been buying synths like a madman. Originally the eight stereo pairs the Focusrite system afforded was enough (but over those six years I added several sub-mixers to the system to accommodate the new synths as I acquired them). I’m up to 15 synths now and decided to do this the correct way for what will probably be my last studio build. So, without breaking the bank on the audio side, in picking up the 16Rig and an OctoPre Dynamic I have 16 stereo pairs now available for the synths. Since I was back to multiple ADAT boxes again, I decided to go the master clock route. I was lucky to pick up a Black Lion Micro Clock MKII, just before they were discontinued. The Micro Clock II supports three independent parallel BNC sync lines, which is ideal for my current system (but not so ideal until Arturia updates its buggy firmware).

Apparently, Andres had heard of this problem before, which is why, I guess, he asked me to document it. Given my experience with BNC clock so far with the 16Rig, I’d be prepared to spend quite a bit of time trying to get what you will have to work (I finally have a usable audio system, but it only works if I turn my system on in ONE SPECIFIC 10-Step ORDER. Seriously, it took me almost 15 total hours to try all of the permutations and combinations to get it functional, and still I have to keep the gain of the 16Rig set to zero until after I turn on the OctoPres and let the sync noise settle (about 15 sec). Once it quiets down it runs as stable I could possibly want it to. If I was a “Pro” I’d probably send the 16Rig back and fork out the big bucks for an RME system. However, when I finally got it to work I was so relieved that the extra time it takes from when I boot the computer until I can actually use the studio, doesn’t really bother me (at least not $3500 worth!).

Anyway, my OctoPre Dynamic plays with the 16Rig via BNC pretty well. In fact, it seems to be some kind of sync-locking hysteresis in my 6-year old regular OctoPre that appears to be the culprit for the sync noise I get on startup (the noise bursts only come from the 8-channels from that ADAT link). It never came up in my old system because that OctoPre provided ADAT sync for the 18i20, similar to how your A13 is currently syncing your 16Rig.

So, what I’d try first when your OctoPre Dynamic arrives is to sync it to the A13 using ADAT (since that’s you only option). I’m pretty sure that the OctoPre will follow it, and I can’t see why there would be any reason to believe that, once-locked, the signal coming out of the OctoPre’s BNC wouldn’t be the same frequency as what was on its ADAT input. The sticky part, is the audio. If the 16Rig can ignore the ADAT sync signal and still process its digital audio (which it should be able to do if the external sync was working correctly, because, in my system, it still accepts audio from the ADAT connections even if the BNC sync isn’t locked and the system is running on the 16Rig’s internal clock (although the shrieking noises aren’t tolerable for long).

I know this has gotten a bit verbose, but if you set it up the way I describe here’s what you may want to try on startup the first time.

Keep the power on the OctoPre off. Boot the AFCC. Turn the gain knob down so it is at 0dB. SET THE FREQUENCY and CLOCK SOURCE from the right top of the GUI. Then turn on the OctoPre. If you don’t get a noise burst (and I don’t think you will), you’ve got it to work correctly (if it works, at all). Remember, however, that doesn’t mean that the 16Rig is going to remember the frequency or the clock source after you turn it off (even if you save a Preset). If you make the assumption that it will, if you are wrong, get ready to cover your ears when the 16Rigs amps kick in, and it had defaulted to 41K running on internal sync.

Anyway, I’d appreciate hearing how this turns out for you.

John

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#13

Looking forward to hearing how you get on, @DjRavix. @mosspa1 - your experience is interesting but I don’t have that option because one of my devices has ADAT clock/sync only with no option for word clock.

A really shame that the ADAT 2 out on the 16rig cannot provide clock like the first out - I presume as a cost saving measure? But it would have supported a simple and low-hassle set-up for me - allowing simple connection of slave ADAT devices using optical cables only.

#14

I don’t think it is a cost-cutting situation. There can only be one “master clock” if everything is going to sync properly. The sync signal is in the ADAT specification. IIRC, if there are two ADAT OUT ports, they function independently. If they were both allowed to send clock, there would be no defined “master” and the asynchronous operation of the ports could (and probably would) result in sync issues. While the “clock thru” provision works, it really doesn’t provide the tightest sync clock you might want, especially if you are trying to sync more than two devices. Having one designated (external) “Master Clock” is the best solution. In the case of the 16Rig, once the device is manually set to “know” that the sync signal is external and what its frequency is, the sync works flawlessly. Once Arturia corrects the problem I’ve defined, the 16Rig will behave like a professional piece of equipment. Right now it’s just an inconvenience and a PITA and is only one extra thing to think about.

#15

Hi mosspa1, I’m not suggesting more than one master clock - I want to continue to use the 16Rig as the sole master clock source like in my current set-up which uses the 16rig as the master with one slave device synced via ADAT1 out.

Currently with a 16Rig as clock master, it sends the clock to ADAT 1 out and to word clock BNC out - so it’s absolutely possible for the 16Rig to send its clock to multiple I/Os, So I don’t see any technical reason for NOT also sending it to ADAT2 out. I agree that supporting an external clock via ADAT2 IN makes no sense.

My current set-up works flawlessly. This was my first exposure to ADAT and I’ve read/heard lots of negative stuff about ADAT and people having sync issues so I was worried that I’d have difficulties getting things working.

But it (almost) couldn’t be simpler: connect with 2 ADAT cables, configure the slave device to take clock from ADAT and that’s it - switch devices on and it all just worked. No other configuration or external devices or BNC cables required. I believe that it’s as close to being “plug-n-play” as is possible with ADAT.

The problem is that I cannot just use the same simple approach with ADAT 2 because it lacks clock. I think for a “prosumer” device like the 16Rig, providing the clock signal in ADAT 2 out would have made things much simpler for typical users.

Note, I’m not considering your prior situation in a studio where you had 4 or 5 boxes you needed to sync. In that situation, I can see that having an external master word clock source and BNC cables makes sense. But for a home studio, with 1 or 2 other ADAT devices, I believe requiring the use of separate word clock infrastructure allow connecting 2 slave devices to the 16rig is overkill.

#16

@derriz I can confirm that it actually works …

However there are some weird things

When I turn the OctoPre on I do get as @mosspa1 already mentioned a burst of noise just after the clock Locks.
My workaround is to turn on the OctoPre before the 16Rig

the most weirdest thing I noticed was that if I turn the ai3 off than the OctoPre will not pass it’s input signal to the 16Rig (This was a bit of a weird surprise that I noticed)
so it seems the 1st Adat connections need to be active before the second one should works

Till so far I have not noticed any other issues and both the ai3 and OctoPre seem to sync to the 16Rig’s wordclock just fine despite one being clocked over Adat while the other over BNC.

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#17

Hey @DjRavix - thanks for the update! Sounds like it might work for me also. Hopefully I get a chance to try it out sometime this weekend. I can imagine that the tip about ensuring ADAT1 is engaged before getting audio from ADAT2 might save a lot of frustration.

The 2nd ADAT device I want to use is not actually an off-the-shelf product which introduces a lot of uncertainty - so it’s good to know that at least with regular consumer devices, it works. Not particularly relevant but I found a ADAT to USB adaptor from a company called minidsp called an MCHStreamer. I’m planning to connect this to the 16rig, to run some “insert” audio fx.

#18

@DjRavix - yeah I finally got around to testing this and can report similar results with some odd results.

Syncing a device connected to ADAT 2 using word clock over a BNC cable works it seems. This is the good news.

However, I think I also see the issue you’ve observed. If I DON’T have an active device plugged into ADAT 1, then I see nothing on an any of the ADAT2 channels. I think this is similar to what you are describing.

This is annoying for the set-up I had wanted to implement which would allow operation with or without a device connected to ADAT 1.

Again, because the manual is so light, I’m not sure whether there’s a reason for this or whether it’s just a bug in the current firmware release.