Setup for 16Rig with X8 IN X8 Out and ES-3

[dysonant]

I have a 16Rig as my main audio interface on a Mac (latest OS) running Ableton 12. I’m extending my i/o on the 16Rig using ADAT 1-8 to a X8 In and X8 Out. This is all working great, as expected.

I want to add my ES-3 (eurorack ADAT interface) to the 16 Rig as well. I have read this in the manual:

However, larger more advanced studios with many pieces of digital equipment may need to use Word Clock to sync devices together. This example is similar to the first example above except that we now have two AudioFuse 8Pre units connected to the AudioFuse 16Rig through ADAT. This greatly expands the already impressive I/O capabilities of the 16Rig by adding 16 channels of pre-amplified inputs and 16 additional analog outputs.

In this setup, it is not possible to synchronize both devices through ADAT cables alone because AudioFuse 16 Rig’s second set of ADAT ports cannot send or receive synchronization data (only the first set of ADAT I/O ports can send or receive sync signals). This is not a problem, however, since we can use Word Clock to synchronize the three devices. In fact, Word Clock can be used to synchronize as many digital devices in your studio.

This is where I start to get a bit lost. There is a lot of info about the 8Pre and nothing about the X8 units. IN the X8 manuals there is a bunch of info about using BNC and a T-connector to add two X8 IN units, but nothing about adding an IN and an OUT. Even worse it tells you you need to flip a switch to terminate one of the INS. Is that true for OUT also? Who know? I do not know.

The line that aggravates me the most is:

In fact, Word Clock can be used to synchronize as many digital devices in your studio.

OK, awesome! Well, the ES-3 does not have a BNC connector, so how?

So, while I am waiting on delivery of a bunch of BNC cables and T-connectors, I am thinking, maybe this setup will work?

• 16 Rig USB > Computer
• 16 Rig ADAT 1-8 Out > ES-3
• ES-3 ADAT Out > 16 Rig ADAT 1-8 IN
• 16 Rig ADAT 9-16 Out > X8 OUT ADAT IN
• X8 IN ADAT Out > 16 Rig ADAT 9-16 IN
• 16 Rig BNC Out > T-connector>
  – X8 OUT BNC IN (switch set to ???)
  – X8 IN BNC IN (switch set to ???)

Does anyone know? Have you tried attaching more than the X8 IN and Out? None of the videos or documentation talk about more complicated setups. Maybe I made a mistake swapping out from MOTU AVB solution to Arturia. I thought it might be easier. Famous last words, right?

[dysonant]

Reading over my post, it occurs ot me my setup is not at all complicated. Maybe more than some folks, but I’ve seen tons more complicated studios than this.

[Sean_W]

Hello,
have you seen “How to sync other devices with wordclock” in this FAQ:

AudioFuse 16Rig - General Questions

This shows you how to setup with an AF16Rig with and 2 x AFX8In, but the wordclock setup would be the same with 1 x AFX8In and 1 x AFX8Out.

As for your setup, it seems that the ES-3 only has ADAT In, no ADAT Out.
So, you only have to connect it to one of the 2 ADAT Outputs of the AF16Rig, no need for wordclock on the ES-3 (it will take its clock directly from the ADAT lightpipe).

• 16 Rig USB > Computer
• 16 Rig ADAT 1-8 Out > ES-3
• 16 Rig ADAT 9-16 Out > X8 OUT ADAT IN
• X8 IN ADAT Out > 16 Rig ADAT 9-16 IN
• 16 Rig BNC Out > T-connector> on X8 IN BNC IN (switch set to Hi-Z)
• T-connector> X8 OUT BNC IN (switch set to 75 Ohm)

[dysonant]

Hey, thanks for the response. Sorry I did not mention I also have the ES-6/7 expanders for the ES-3. It is the extra Adat out.

I did see the FAQ you sent as it is a direct excerpt from the X8 IN manual. You suggest to plug the ES-3 into either of the 2 ADAT outs. While word clock is not needed, the ES-3 will still require synchronization, which to my understanding is only possible on the ADAT 1-8 out not in the 9-16.

Regardless it seems like you’re confirming my suggested setup is the right way to go, so I’m gonna try it once I have the BNC cables.

[Sean_W]

@dysonant

Sorry I did not mention I also have the ES-6/7 expanders for the ES-3. It is the extra Adat out

Oh, I see.
It shouldn’t be a problem since the ES-3 would get its digital clock from the ADAT out of AF16Rig, and the ES-6/7 gets its clock from the ES-3. Therefore, the ADAT signal coming back to the AF16Rig from the ES-6/7 would already be sync’ed to the AF16Rig’s clock.

Make sure the AF16Rig is set to Internal clock. It will be the Master clock for the ES via ADAT, and for the AFX8 In and AFX8 Out via Wordclock.

@dysonant

You suggest to plug the ES-3 into either of the 2 ADAT outs. While word clock is not needed, the ES-3 will still require synchronization, which to my understanding is only possible on the ADAT 1-8 out not in the 9-16.

If I’m not mistaken, both ADAT 1-8 Out and ADAT 9-16 Out send digital clock, but only ADAT 1-8 In can receive clock, not ADAT 9-16 In.

[dysonant]

My BNC cables and connectors have arrived. For now I am leaving the Expert Sleepers module out of the setup. I just want to get the X8 IN and OUT working on ADAT channels 9-16.

Here is the deal:

I have the X8 OUT working on ADAT 9-16. Word clock seems to sync properly AFCC sees the signals coming from the ocmputer and I can send audio out, no issue.

The X8 IN is another story. No matter what I do or try, it simply will not work when using ADAT 2 (9-16) on the 16Rig. I have done the following and it all fails:

• rebooted everything
• reseated the ADAT
• reseated BNC (but word clock seems fine)
• swapped HiZ and 75 Ohm switches on each device
• ensured routing was correct like 100 times
• Restarted DAW
• changed sample rates several times
• made sure all ins/outs were on in the daw (ableton)
• and more

I decided to try moving the X8 IN over to ADAT 1 on the 16Rig and it works.

I removed the BNC connection, and the X8 OUT still works totally fine. I swapped the below preference between 75 Ohm and HiZ multiple times, and still the X8 OUT works fine but not the X8 in (ADAT 2)

It is my guess this confirms that ADAT 2 9-16 also sends clock, otherwise, what would it work. If that is the case, why does Arturia suggest using a t-connector? Which made me think of another test. I connected the X8 IN to Word clock and set X8 IN to 75Ohm, the word clock LED syncs and goes solid from blinking. I disconnect the BNC from X8 OUT and its word clock LED starts blinking. WIth X8 IN connected to ADAT 2 I get no signal. Wiht it connected to ADAT 1 I get a signal. MEanwhile, X8 OUT is just chugging along working fine outputting a signal even thought its word clock led is blinking.

I feel like I missing something really simple and obvious here. I seriously at a loss and kind of defeated. This should not be so hard.

[Sean_W]

@dysonant

For now I am leaving the Expert Sleepers module out of the setup. I just want to get the X8 IN and OUT working on ADAT channels 9-16.

Well, that’s a potential issue right there.
If the AFX8 In is the only ADAT input device, it should be connected to ADAT 1-8 input.
I believe you can only use ADAT -9-16 input if you have an active connection on ADAT 1-8 input.

@dysonant

I removed the BNC connection, and the X8 OUT still works totally fine.

Indeed, the AFX8 Out can be clocked either from WordClock (BNC) or from the ADAT clock (Optical) for the AF16RIg’s ADAT Outputs.
You just need to select the correct SYNC input on the X8 Out front panel.

What is really important is that whatever source is connected to the ADAT Inputs of the AF16Rig is sync’ed with the AF16Rig’s clock.

If the AF16Rig is running on its Internal clock, the only option for the AFX8 In is to be sync’ed to the AF6Rig via Wordclock coming from the AF16Rig.
And if the AFX8 In is the only device connected to the Wordclock output of the AF16Rig (in case you remove the BNC connection to the AFX8 Out), you don’t need a T-Connector, you only need one 75 Ohms BNC cable from AF16Rig Wordclock Out to AFX8 In Wordclock In.
In that case, the “termination” switch on the AFX8 In should be set to 75 Ohms (end of the Wordclock “chain”),
AFX8 In SYNC should be set to Wordclock and obviously, its CLOCK at the same sample rate as the AF16Rig.

In a simple setup with only the AF16Rig + 1 x AFX8 In + 1 x AFX8 Out, you wouldn’t be required to use BNC Wordclock.
You could use the AFX8 In as the Master Clock with this setup (sample rate selected on the AFX8 In front panel):

• AFX8 In ADAT output to AF16Rig ADAT 1-8 input (as discussed earlier, only ADAT 1-8 can receive clock)
• AF16Rig Clock Source set to ADAT (can only be ADAT 1-8) at the same sample rate as the AFX8 In
• AF16Rig ADAT Output (either 1-8 or 9-16) to AFX8 Out ADAT Input (AFX8 Out SYNC set to ADAT)

What makes your setup more complicated is that you also want to connect the ADAT output of the ES-6/7 to an ADAT input of the AF16Rig.
Therefore, you now have two ADAT sources that MUST be sync’ed together.
(similar to the example with 2 x AFX8 In connected to an AF16Rig)
Hence, the recommendation of using the AF16Rig as the Master clock as described in previous messages.

In theory, since the ES-6/7 is linked to the ES-3 that doesn’t have a Wordclock input, you could try not using wordclock at all, and relying only on ADAT clock, but there’s a risk of running into an ADAT clock loop with the ES3+ES6/7 using ADAT In and ADAT Out both connected to the AF16Rig.
This setup would use the AFX8 In as Master clock (sample rate selected on the AFX8 In front panel):

• AFX8 In ADAT output to AF16Rig ADAT 1-8 input (as discussed earlier, only ADAT 1-8 can receive clock)
• AF16Rig Clock Source set to ADAT (can only be ADAT 1-8) at the same sample rate as the AFX8 In
• AF16Rig ADAT Output (either 1-8 or 9-16) to AFX8 Out ADAT Input (AFX8 Out SYNC set to ADAT)
• AF16Rig’s other ADAT Output to ES-3 (ES-3 set to receive clock from its ADAT input)
• ES-6/7 set to receive clock from the ES-3
• ES-6/7 ADAT output to AF16Rig ADAT 9-16 input

Since ES-6/7 clock is sync’ed to ES-3 clock, which is receiving ADAT clock from the AF16Rig ADAT output, which itselft is clocked from the ADAT output of AFX8 In, everything should be clocked together, but as I mentioned above I’m not sure how the ES-3/6/7 will behave in such an ADAT clock loop, with the Master ADAT clock coming from the AFX8 In through the AF16Rig. That’s why I had recommended using the AF16Rig as the Master clock, which required the BNC wordclock to AFX8 In connection.

I hope this helps.

[dysonant]

Sean, you have gone above and beyond and been immensely patient and helpful, which I sincerely rely appreciate. For now, because I am frustrated and want to make music instead of configure devices with poor documentation, I am connecting things this way:

• 16rig ADAT 1-8 OUT > X8 OUT ADAT IN
• X8 IN ADAT OUT > 16rig ADAT 1-8 IN
• 16rig ADAT 9-16 > ES-3 ADAT IN

The above config works totally fine without BNC. Skipping the ES-6/7 to avoid having to use BNC for now. I’ve got enough other inputs to survive.

When I find time to dig into this again and I am willing to waste a few more hours I will give your recommended config a try and report back.

This setup would use the AFX8 In as Master clock (sample rate selected on the AFX8 In front panel):

• AFX8 In ADAT output to AF16Rig ADAT 1-8 input (as discussed earlier, only ADAT 1-8 can receive clock)
• AF16Rig Clock Source set to ADAT (can only be ADAT 1-8) at the same sample rate as the AFX8 In
• AF16Rig ADAT Output (either 1-8 or 9-16) to AFX8 Out ADAT Input (AFX8 Out SYNC set to ADAT)
• AF16Rig’s other ADAT Output to ES-3 (ES-3 set to receive clock from its ADAT input)
• ES-6/7 set to receive clock from the ES-3
• ES-6/7 ADAT output to AF16Rig ADAT 9-16 input

[dysonant]

So, I figured I’d wrap this up considering it is now sorted. FIrst, thanks @Sean_W for your help, it was much appreciated.

Since I hit a wall I contacted Arturia support. After a couple of exchanges I realized I have been using my T-connector as a Y-splitter attached directly to the 16Rig so the word clock would run in parallel to both X8 units. One I realized the BNC t-connector was supposed to run in series, attached to one of the X8 units and passing the signal through to the other X8 I got it all working.