SEQ recorded notes being transposed an oct up on MIDI out

Brute PolyBrute
#1

Dear all,
the issue I am describing has been forwarded with recorded videos to describe in detail.
Unfortunately the answer was: …this is the way the PB works…

If you record a sequence it will playback all as recorded - fine, as one would expect this.
But the notes being transmitted via MIDI is one octave up - a MIDI monitor of your choice will show this.
e.g.: a recorded note is a C2 - the output is C3. Does not sound much, but if, e.g a bass synth runs with it I need to transpose it down. Again, no big issue, but it does not make sense and should be corrected.

But as mentioned, not a task to be taken by Arturia.

Maybe a joined attempt will make change their mind…

#2

Hi @StudioDeutz ,

I don’t have Polybrute. I feel like some context is missing.
The same midi note can for example be named diferen C numbers depending on the software used.
Are you saying, that if Polybrutes sequencer for example play midi note 60, then it output midi note 72 by default?
Midi note 60 should be midi note 60.

#3

Fine and thanks for the heads-up, I missed a detail:

  • If the sequencer is off, the whole keyboard of the PB transmitts the correct octave information - in split and non-spilt presets.

I do not use software. The slave (expander) of the PB is a Virus Ti. Both run through an Akai MPCX (MIDI patchbay with 2 IN and 4 OUT), where I can monitor all signals passing through the ports.

#4

Anyway it’s the midi note number that’s important. I don’t see you answer that question.

Can anyone confirm that Polybrutes sequencer output midi note 72, when it play midi note 60 internally?

I very much doubt Arturia will say it’s okay if Polybrutes sequencer play midi note 60 internally but output midi note 72 to external devices unless there is a octave/ note shifter that can do that and be changed by the user.

#6

Using MIDI-OX, here’s what I get playing 4 notes, recording 4 notes and playing back 4 notes - all of them note number 60:

 TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT               
    710512  3  --    144    60    75    1  C  4 Note On               
    710732  3  --    128    60    28    1  C  4 Note Off              
    710981  3  --    144    60    86    1  C  4 Note On               
    711206  3  --    128    60    36    1  C  4 Note Off              
    711446  3  --    144    60    88    1  C  4 Note On               
    711666  3  --    128    60    36    1  C  4 Note Off              
    711902  3  --    144    60    93    1  C  4 Note On               
    712130  3  --    128    60    55    1  C  4 Note Off              
    716105  3  --    144    60    76    1  C  4 Note On               
    716356  3  --    128    60    56    1  C  4 Note Off              
    716571  3  --    144    60    91    1  C  4 Note On               
    716807  3  --    128    60    57    1  C  4 Note Off              
    717010  3  --    144    60    86    1  C  4 Note On               
    717269  3  --    128    60    48    1  C  4 Note Off              
    717484  3  --    144    60    83    1  C  4 Note On               
    717761  3  --    128    60    60    1  C  4 Note Off              
    747976  3  --    250   ---   ---   --  ---  Start                 
    747978  3  --    144    60    76    1  C  4 Note On               
    748041  3  --    128    60    64    1  C  4 Note Off              
    748104  3  --    144    60    91    1  C  4 Note On               
    748166  3  --    128    60    64    1  C  4 Note Off              
    748229  3  --    144    60    86    1  C  4 Note On               
    748291  3  --    128    60    64    1  C  4 Note Off              
    748353  3  --    144    60    83    1  C  4 Note On               
    748416  3  --    128    60    64    1  C  4 Note Off              
    748497  3  --    252   ---   ---   --  ---  Stop

Edit 2: Just to be sure, I tested with USB and DIN MIDI, and the note number is the same.

Edit 2: Middle C 262 Hz, aka C4 and MIDI note number 60 seems to be treated as such on the PB, However, out of curiosity I googled “MPCX note numbers” and the first result was “How do I view note number instead of note name? Meaning to have 60 displayed instead of C3.” (link), so perhaps there’s a different interpretation of the octave number in the MPC, which could be confusing?

2 Likes
#7

Thanks @DrJustice.

@StudioDeutz - If you get the same results as @DrJustice then there is nothing wrong with your polybrute.

BTW: Can you actually hear the octave difference, if you have both your polybrute and your Virus set to the same tuning using only one oscillator and don’t use any transpose?

#8

Hi DrJustice,
I see that only MIDI channel 1 is being used. Is the sequencer running on channel 1 or as the default channel 2 - as I am using it.

The PB sends the correct notes - except when the sequencer is sending its root note to the expander.

Btw: the seq midi note out is set to OFF. Because I don’t want the Virus play the PB sequencer notes but the root note. The Virus plays its own sequence or whatever…

If the MPCX would be the problem, all notes I play on the PB would be transposed up, but it is just the sequencer doing so.
And as mentioned to LBH, not the technical side whether it is C3, C4, or note# 60 or 72 is bothering me - it is the audible MIDI output of the PB worrying me.

#9

LBH,
yes of course can I hear the difference.
The note number or what ever is not important - it is the transposing of one octave up - and this is clearly audible…

And I do not have the same result.
The sequencer is running on channel 2 (lower part) and the upper part on channel 1 (default setting)
The upperpart sends the correct note information the lower part is transposed up.

#10

Aha, OK.

When recording C4 notes in the sequencer, and playing the sequencer using the C3 key, C4 notes gets transmitted.

When the sequencer MIDI out is switched off, that doesn’t change the MIDI notes used internally, and thus transmitted for the root key. So if you want to trigger the PB sequencer with a key it’ll obey those mechanics. I.e. the PB doesn’t send any “wrong” note numbers, this is how it works.

So, if you want to trigger the sequencer with a key AND play external gear with that key, with a root note in a specific octave, you’ll have to use transposition. Try this for the example of having recorded a C4:

  • Hold Timbrality and set Octave -1 to transpose the lower part.

Now the sequence root note becomes C3 when C3 is played, and C3 is sent over MIDI.

Remember that you can also set the split point with Timbrality + pressing a key. With the lower transpose and split point settings, you should hopefully find a good configuration.

1 Like
#11

Thanks for testing this @DrJustice .

#12

Hi DrJustice,
exactly what I do not understand, and what is wrong to my understanding.
I am well aware how to transpose the lower part - and it works. But the PB sequence needs to be transposed as well to reflect what I’ve keyed in into the sequencer. To my understanding it is a manual correction, which can be avoided by sending the same octave note via MIDI.

Nevermind, with the hope that one day a proggy of Arturia sees it my way.
Best Regards and thank you for the effort.

Note: I use the sequencer in “OFF”-mode. This way I can play the sequencer with my left hand (not running the seq continuously to be able to make breaks) and do the lead with my right hand.

Note 2: The PB is a wonderful instrument - and I would never swap it against another synth - except the PB12 :wink:

#13

You can record in another octave in the sequencer, or transpose the sequence to reach any combination of keyboard and sequencer octave.

And yes, it’s a manual operation. I think this is where the use of the provided features is a reasonable solution to a specific need. I hope you’ll find a workable configuration.

Yup, got that. Sounds like a cool way to play the two synths with the layered root note :slight_smile: