For or against A.I. in your compositions

Sound Explorers Corner Free speech
#1

Hello everyone,

It was while watching a tutorial on creating a piece with AI that this concern at my level regarding the blank musical score prevented me, out of respect for my attachment to music, from crossing the Rubicon.

And what will be your position regarding its involvement in your future compositions ?

A guide or a crutch?

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#2

Hi Pascal from sunless spring in Quebec,

I’m old school and I believe, like Chomsky and others, that AI is high tech plagiarism. The students who rely on AI for their homework are not learning.

If you’re getting paid for your music, you may be sued. The NYT is suing OpenAI for using their articles for training.

If it’s for fun, I see no problem. But you may spend time filtering out the dirt. I use Google Trad to translate bits of text and I always have to do some or a lot of editing. But it may be a guide leading to ideas. I’ve used Band in a Box soloing a few years back; it is sometimes interesting. Is it AI?

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#3

Hello @francoise ,

sorry for the late arrival of the sun, which is bringing you gentle warmth.

Here in Brittany (it’s true that it only rains on those who complain), apart from periods of heavy rain in Rennes and many other regions, the sun with April temperatures is out today and certainly tomorrow (a 7.5 km walk with my wife).

To get back to A.I. this morning, after this post, I played the curious one (I know, I acted like a naughty person :wink: ).

My wife finds the unhealthy side of this tool, but I have received some musical direction regarding certain elements that until now eluded me.

Of course, it’s only a general question about musical behavior and not the final work to be proposed that interests me. I don’t have a handle on the process; I’m a bit lost today in organizing a piece.

It’s very difficult intellectually to structure it, not to mention the financial implications of a real band.

I make do with the means available to me; if I find some direction without losing my soul, then why pass it up?

Furthermore, I’m not a danger to the music industry since I’m completely inaudible musically; I’m just sharing something for those I appreciate, here and elsewhere.

Yours sincerely, Françoise.

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#4

Hey @PascalH_HSMR_CIWA

An interesting, HIGHLY topical and controversial question.

I do not work for Arturia nor should anything i say in this post be attributed or associated with them in any way, this is entirely my own opinion.

I would simply give up if i ever felt the need to use AI for or in a composition.
The tools for creating music are already out there, its up to the ‘end user’ to acquaint themselves with them, to learn, understand, break them, go back to them, break them again etc

Using AI is akin to getting someone else to compose for you, i could never live with my own conscience claiming to have written something that was ‘created’ by computer, even more so now ‘the cat is out of the bag’ regarding AI scraping everyone’s back catalogues for ‘inspiration’.

If i want to listen to John Coltrane, Chaka Khan, Ellington, Fitzgerald, Prince, The Sex Pistols, Gary Numan, Dexter Wansel, Jah Wobble or whoever, then it’s THEM i want to listen to, not something someone with a laptop who has given an AI a set of instructions to rip off someone else’s work in effect.
I’ve heard many examples of ‘music created by AI’ over the past couple of years and so far it sounds like it was created by a computer. Sonically they kind of sound like an mp3 so far, this will likely improve of course, but they also just ‘don’t make sense’ musically when listening to them, or at least not the more complex styles that i’ve heard.

Worst case scenario
 everyone ends up sounding like coldplay
 :scream::scream::joy::rofl:

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#5

Hello and thank you for your good advice @matjones , @francoise

Of course, I don’t want the ChatGPT machine to do the work for me.

What’s the point for me intellectually? As you said, I prefer not to make music anymore.

Anyway, it’s not the machine that presses the keys on my Roland e-38 keyboard, and although I’m neither an exceptional guitarist nor keyboardist, it’s the sound of these instruments that can be found either in audio or MIDI on my PC.

I’ve made a few requests, such as:

How many instruments does Vangelis use in each of his musical compositions?

How many instruments should a musical composition contain to avoid being too cluttered when listening?

I’m interested in several styles: Epic, Shiver, Thriller, Horror, Science Fiction. It’s not really defined yet.

How do I match orchestral instruments like Symphony Orchestra Core with a number of virtual synthesizers from Arturia?

Each time, an answer that will allow me to better understand my setup and the structure for my next compositions, nothing more.

Of course, I can ask musicians, but it’s not their role to do it for free; they also have their own to set up, and I’m not asking for a handout, just a few parameters that still elude me, and everything else will come to me.

My Friendship. :pray:

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#6

I should have pointed out that I’m skeptical on AI in general and that’s this general stance I was voicing. I read a text on a Canadian start-up offering to detect blood sugar level by sampling voice. Vocal chords are presumed to get stiffer with higher sugar level. It may be helpful to people who don’t know they suffer from diabetes and don’t have a family doctor. It’s useless foe people who are diabetics (like me): my voice doesn’t change after a meal.

It gave your the opportunity to clarify what you are looking for in AI: structural clusters characterizing groups you like.

I don’t know much about AI music. I haven’t listened to AI generated music like Mat.

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#7

Jah Wobble? You’re a bassman, if I remember well. :violin:

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#8

Commercially pleasing the crowd and draw money from music streaming services - welcome AI (and your soul will die in the end) :dizzy_face:

Expressing yourself because it pleases you
and you don’t give a s**t for anything else - AI be gone (though shall not pass) and your soul will flower :hibiscus:

My 10 cents :metal:t3:

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#9

What bothers me is more the financial bubble: the AI tech are collecting huge sums of money, much more than the corporations involved in producing real gold. They are making people dream, like before the 2008 financial crash.

I was speaking in general terms warning on the danger for musicians who monetize their music and risk being sued for plagiarism. I was certainly not thinking about you.
If it helps you in any way, that’s great.

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#10

Whatever gave you that idea? :wink::wink:

Of course there ARE some very obvious beneficial uses for AI which AI happens to be VERY good at, such as early identification of certain medical conditions, scanning through huge amounts of data looking for discrepancies, similarities, patterns etc depending on the application. One of which would be for asteroid identification by checking for differences in images over time. Hardly a creative endeavour though.

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#11

This is what I asked for and received in the message:

" You said:
I’m interested in several styles: Epic, Shiver, Thriller, Horror, and Science Fiction. It’s not really defined yet.
ChatGPT said:
This sounds like a super interesting project, with a fairly varied palette of emotions and tones! The idea of ​​blending styles like epic, thriller, horror, and science fiction can really open up a world of possibilities. Each of these styles has its own codes, but by merging them, you can create a unique and captivating atmosphere.
I’ll give you some ideas for each of these genres, showing you how you could leverage both the orchestra and the Arturia synths.

  1. Epic (Epic Music)
    The goal here is to create intensity, grandeur, and power. This is a style that could pair well with a symphony orchestra and synthesizers to add texture and depth.
    Orchestra: Use massive strings and brass for heroic lines, epic percussion for crescendos (tam-tam beats, bass drum, timpani).
    Synths: Extended pads (like the Analog Lab V) to add an airy atmosphere in the background. Deep bass (Mini V or Modular) to support the heaviness of the orchestra.
    Tip: Bring in modern orchestral elements (violins and woodwinds combined with soaring synth sounds) for a more futuristic feel.
  2. Thrill (Suspense, Tension)
    Here, you aim to manipulate the listener’s attention by creating a sense of suspense, chills, and an oppressive atmosphere.
    Orchestra: Use plucked strings (pizzicato) or skipping to create suspenseful effects. Dark brass instruments (low trumpets and trombones) can heighten anxiety.
    Synths: Ominous bass (Modular V) or synth noises for a menacing background. Dissonant, almost organic pads (like those on the Synclavier V) can add a sense of unease.
    Tip: Subtle bass tremors or dissonant slides create mounting tension. Use modulated oscillators to add slowly evolving dynamics.
  3. Thriller (Action, Tense Suspense)
    For a thriller, you want sounds that keep the listener on edge, but don’t descend into outright dread. It’s more a play on moods and contrasts.
    Orchestra: Piano, fast strings (like spiccato), and dry percussion (like cymbals, handclaps) can help create this tension. High violins gliding over dissonant scales can be incredibly effective.
    Synths: Moving electronic arpeggios, like rhythmic patterns from the Jup-8 V or Modular V. Synths can provide textures that complement the orchestral drums and percussion.
    Tip: The counterpoint between orchestral elements (which add a “real” feel) and synths (which create a more abstract dimension) can be very effective.
  4. Dread (Horror, Extreme Tension)
    Here, you’re looking for discomfort, impending doom. You need to surprise, frighten, and unsettle the listener.
    Orchestra: Use dissonant strings and ominous choirs (especially in open harmonies). Lower strings and blowing brass (trombones, tubas) can create gloomy and menacing sounds. Synths: Use ambient noises generated by synths like the Modular V (to create eerie sounds, slow slides, and strange frequencies). The Mini V with very low bass can create that sense of unease. Static noises or lots of distortion can also add an unsettling touch.
    Tip: Sudden silence followed by a buildup of tension with modified synths can make all the difference. Also, be careful with the use of infrasound (sub-bass resonating with large percussion) to accentuate the anxiety.
  5. Science Fiction (Futuristic, Eerie)
    For science fiction, you’re looking to create immersive worlds, either utopian or dystopian.
    Orchestra: Mix strings and woodwinds for an atmospheric, slightly ethereal feel. Brass for a more solemn and epic feel. Metallic percussion (cymbals and bells) can also evoke an “otherworldly” atmosphere.
    Synths: Futuristic pads like those created by the CS-80 V or Synclavier V create a spatial effect. Electronic sound effects, like modulated slides or eerie synth sounds, can enhance the sci-fi feel.
    Tip: Combine synths with metallic sounds (like metal shards or mechanical sounds) to simulate an advanced technological environment or a spaceship.
    Summary:
    For each style, you can play with the intensity of the synths and the orchestra depending on the atmosphere you want to create.
    The key is not to overload the arrangements, especially for genres like horror or thriller, where space and tension are as important as the sounds themselves.
    Use textures (pads, ambiences) to support the orchestration without overwhelming the soundstage.
    You could also create textural evolutions: start with a more traditional orchestra and gradually add synths to introduce a futuristic feel, for example
 "
#12

I thought you gave me the idea. :hushed: Old age is catching on.

I did research in AI 1.0 (automatic translation, expert system). I simply think the layman sees too much in AI 2.0. Projection.
A famous story: Weizenbaum’s Eliza was one of the first natural language program mimicking a psychologist asking questions by rearranging sentences the user fed in. One day his secretary seemed mad at him.

  • What’s wrong?
  • You put my life into the machine!
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#13

Ok Pascal, I’m playing the devil’s advocate, l’avocate du diable.

AI can retrieve musical attributes that you can find with search engines. Epic entails grandeur, power, etc.
And Mini V, Modular, Synclavier etc. can express many feelings or moods.

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#14

You’re asking GPT to describe music in words. How would you describe the music you’ve done so far?

#15

Hello @francoise , what have I composed so far?
In the trash.
Just know if I should stop or continue.
I don’t want to be anything more than a collector of Virtual instruments or Daw.
I might as well sell the whole thing and start doing DIY, but I think it will be the same problem, so I’m looking for myself musically speaking.

#16

Isn’t it an ongoing process for everyone? Trashing is a bit too strong but being unsatisfied with what we do is normal. Whether in arts or science, it’s normal.
Van Gogh was never satisfied and Einstein tried to prove “que dieu ne joue pas aux dĂ©s” on his death bed. And he failed. I can get no, satisfaction!

Let things rest for awhile before la vente de garage.
By DIY, you mean creating presets?

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#17

Hello Françoise,
We have a house and the garden, things to repair, a garage to arrange, redo the roof of my garden shed these are the little things for the regular maintenance of a house.

Yesterday lawn and this morning a product on the terrace is to invest more in equipment than in instruments, that’s why I make sure that a budget for my part must be balanced.

Including the fact that I’m never 100% for music, it’s a family choice.

For the presets I rely on some tutorials like Academix.

On the other hand I don’t judge anyone except myself.

Everyone goes through their life as they can or as they wish, but I realize that despite all my efforts for more than 35 years nothing positive comes out of my musical conception there is something to worry about.

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#18

I fully understand the budget factor. It motivated my quite criticized comment on music as melody, harmony and rhythm (or structure if you enjoy Musique ConcrĂšte with noise).
A piano or a synth is enough. I was saying: you don’t need more VSTs.

I’m older than you (My generation, the Who). My son is a musician running after contracts. I’m helping him but it’s his choice in life and he is more talented than me. I could not take a musical dictation, une dictĂ©e musicale. Si peu d’oreille!
À force de faire de la musique, ça s’est dĂ©veloppĂ©.
Who am I to give advice! But why do you have to judge yourself?

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