[Feature Request] NKS Compatibility to match Ni knob assignment

[HobGoblyn]

Hi, my keyboard setup is as follows.

Native Instruments mk3 S88 and Arturia mk2 Keylab 61.

I love the Keylab, I find myself using it more than the S88 (unless of course I’m playing piano etc).

In Komplete Kontrol the S88 knobs control various parameters.

Also in Komplete Kontrol I can sign an external controller to the 8 knobs (and for some buttons).

The relevant bits from Komplete Kontrol manual are

The way this works is, I simply assign the first 8 knobs on my Keylab to the 8 knobs in Komplete Kontrol. Now they happily control the same parameters as the S88, knob 1 on the Keylab controls exactly the same thing as knob 1 on the S88 etc. What’s more, it doesn’t matter what cc the 8 knobs on the Keylab were set at before assigning them, the S88 still also controls the 8 knobs, hence must have done something in s/w to allow this.

I can load any NI instrument and whatever the 8 knobs control on the S88, the first 8 knobs on my Keylab control the same. Even if on the S88 it shows there’s 3 pages of knobs, I go to page 2, whatever those knobs now control on my S88, my Arturia Keylab knobs also controls them. Which is very very very handy.

So, I only need to assign those knobs to my Arturia Keylab once, then next time I launch Komplete Kontrol, it remembers, and it doesn’t matter which NI instrument I load, or what page of parameters I go to on the S88, the first 8 knobs on my Keylab control exactly the same parameters as the 8 knobs on the S88.

However, when I load Arturia V synths into Komplete Kontrol, while the S88 happily controls them, they are not assigned in the same way as NI’s own instruments.

For example I load in a v instrument with 3 pages of parameters on the S88, on the first page, only 2 of my Keylabs knobs control the same thing as two of the knobs on the S88, and not in the same place (made up example not near keyboards, say knob 2 on the S88 controls cutoff, knob 7 does on my Arturia.)

I then select page 2 or 3 and none of the Keylab knobs control anything, using my previous example, knob 7 no longer controls what knob 2 controls on the s88.

So NI seem to have coded their 8 knobs to always use the same 8 knobs that I can assign to an external controller in Komplete Kontrol, and whatever page of knobs I’m on, they still work flawlessly on my Keylab, but Arturia appears to use a different method where not only do they not use the same 8 knob’s assignable in Komplete Kontrol, but a knob that happens to work on one page doesn’t work on the other pages.

Sure I can use Analog Lab, but as you’ve made the very nice effort of making your v synths NKS compatible so we can use them in Komplete Kontrol, it would be nice to be able to control them from within it as easily as we can with NI’s own instruments.

Thanks

[LBH]

Hi @HobGoblyn . Hope you are fine.

I don’t understand.
If you assign knobs to the Komplete Kontrols software knobs, then the same knobs should allways be controlled by the same assigned knobs.
What excactly do you mean by pages? If it’s midi CC pages, then are you sure third party controllers have this possibility in the Komplete Kontrol software? In NI Controller Editor i can see it’s possible to assign midi CC’s for two pages, but i’m not sure this is possible without a NI controller. In the KOmplete Kontrol software ii only see the possibility to control 8 knobs. Does a Komplete Kontrol controller allow to use 16 knobs (2 times 8 knobs)? You can allways try to use the same midi CC’s your Komplete Kontrol controller use.

Are you sure you can use different midi CC’s for your controllers to control the Komplete Kontrol software?
Does’nt your Komplete Kontrol controller knobs send out midi CC’s to control the Komplete Kontrol knobs?

How is this a Arturia NKS issue?

[HobGoblyn]

Thanks

First of all, my apologies, I don’t know what was up with my setup yesterday as today it’s working exactly as I asked for in my above post.

The reason it has something to do with Arturia is because Arturia decided to make their V series NKS compatible, so that they work in Native Instruments komplete kontrol in a similar way to NI own software. Hence had they not been working properly, either Arturia hadn’t done something right or NI had limited their ability do implement everything.

As it is, they have done it right and it was me at fault.

As strange as it sounds, the 8 knobs on the S88 work 100% fine regardless of what midi CC I use on the Keylab, I’ll record a short vid to show you.

Regarding pages, just for your info, there’s only 8 knobs on the S88 mk3, and for the CS80 there’s 10 pages I can select, see below pics.

Here’s a quick very badly recorded vid showing how the S88 doesn’t care about what CC numbers my keylab assigns to komplete kontrol

for Arturia forum

Here’s pics showing the CS80 pages 1 to 3 out of 10 on the S88

[LBH]

Hi again @HobGoblyn,

Glad it work afterall.
Thanks for the video.

So you talk about the parameter pages in the Komplete Kontrol Software and not about the midi CC pages in the Controller Editor See images.

Regarding using different midi CC’s on your controllers to control the same software knob at the same time, like you show in the video, then how does Komplete Kontrol distinct between the controllers? Somehow it look like it does. But how?
May i ask - Have you your NI controller selected in Komplete Kontrols Controller menu? See image?

trying to understand, why it does’nt create midi CC conflicts that a knob is assigned different midi CC’s from your controllers, if that’s indeed is the case.

[HobGoblyn]

@LBH

So you talk about the parameter pages in the Komplete Kontrol Software and not about the midi CC pages in the Controller Editor See images.

It’s not either just to complicate things further. It’s only on the actual S series keyboard.

As Native Instruments call their S series keyboards “ Komplete Kontrol keyboards” and also call the software “Komplete Kontrol” , it gets difficult trying to explain.

Take the CS80, the Komplete Kontrol software shows the same image as opening the CS80 standalone. But the S88 shows page 1 as per the first pic.

If I move any of the 7 knobs, the relevant controls on the CS80 pic in Komplete Kontrol move.

If I then select say page 3 on the S88, the display on the komplete Kontrol software remains exactly the same, but when I move the 8 knobs assigned to page 3 on the S88, the 8 relevant controls on the CS80 pic in Komplete Kontrol now move. Hope that makes some kind of sense.

If I had the latest version of the CS80, using the NI mk3 S series, it’s much easier to navigate through the pages, as shown here by someone at NI using the Arturia CS80 It should start at the correct place, 34.44 mins.

How to use everything in Kontrol S-Series MK3 MIDI keyboard controller | Native Instruments

Regarding using different midi CC’s on your controllers to control the same software knob at the same time, like you show in the video, then how does Komplete Kontrol distinct between the controllers? Somehow it look like it does. But how?
May i ask - Have you your NI controller selected in Komplete Kontrols Controller menu? See image?

trying to understand, why it does’nt create midi CC conflicts that a knob is assigned different midi CC’s from your controllers, if that’s indeed is the case.

Yes, I have it set there.

I initially thought the same as you as logically it makes sense, but when I was in my DAW, initially trying to figure out what CC numbers Native Instruments had used (intending to set my Keylab Knobs to the same), using the midi monitor, the CC numbers showing up, if I set my Keylab knobs to those numbers, they did nothing which I found very very odd

Then I enabled automation and was getting very odd things from the S88, all with numbers above 127, I’m not at my keyboards now so can’t take a pic.

The first paragraph of the manual I quoted in my first post sort of implies they are hard coded when it says “Komplete Kontrol keyboards are ready-mapped to the software”

[LBH]

Yes.
Thanks @HobGoblyn ,

I think the different controllers must use different midi configurations.
Something like when you in Arturias applications can change midi configurations so they for example match different controllers. The switch must just be done automaticly in the Komplete Kontrol control. I can imagine, that for example all none NI controllers have to use the same midi CC’s, unless the software can recognize different third party controllers.