Disappointment with Keylab MK3

Lab KeyLab
#21

DAW: Logic Pro 11
Macbook Pro M1 Max
Current MIDI controller: Akai MPK249
Huge fan of the V Collection

Hi there,

I’ve been researching the new Keylab mk3 for the past few weeks and was only able to find what appear to be sponsored reviews on Youtube, with reviewers only going through a feature list and not really sharing any personal / critical view.

So it’s been a relief to finally read you guys, and I should have started here, on the manufacturer’s forums.

As I understand, it seems the disappointment stems from Keylab mk2 owners who were hoping for a more future proofed and significant upgrade.

Coming from a good old Akai MPK249, I might not experience the same feeling. However I read some other posts here that got me concerned:

  1. The MPK249 integration with Logic Pro is close to inexistant, and mapping stuff manually drives me crazy.

So replacing it with the Keylab mk3, I’m hoping to get a much better and seamless integration.

It seems early buyers have been experiencing issues with the Keylab’s integration with different DAWs, including Logic Pro.

Are these one offs issues or is it a general problem?

  1. IMO, the MPK249 pads are still amongst the best for finger drumming.

I’m afraid to be disappointed by the Keylab pads.

12 pads with several banks is actually perfect. The MPK249’s 16 pads generally had 3-4 pads that would just duplicate the same sound anyway so I won’t miss them.

Any finger drummers in the place who could share feedback on the pads quality, responsiveness and feel?

  1. I read that poly AT is missing, as well as MIDI 2.0.

I think MIDI 2.0 is really just about future proofing. Currently no real use, at least in my humble case.

However polyphonic aftertouch would have been welcome.

Noob question: could poly AT be added via a firmware update?

And to conclude, any feedback from Logic Pro 11 users is appreciated!

Thank you all!

#22

I cannot answer from a point of the KeyLab MK3 as I am still waiting for the first shipment of the keyboards to even arrive here in Canada. But from what I have understood is that the large parts of the KeyLab are common between all the products.

So in answer to some of your questions I can cover what I have experienced with the minilab3 that I bought recently to cover me until my ‘real’ unit arrives.

  1. I had problems with getting the minilab to work with Logic 10.7.9 that is listed as being supported. Logic recognized the minilab as being connected and asked if I wanted to auto assign the controls. But that didn’t do anything as all the knob encoders, sliders didn’t link to anything. I waisted a good 3-4 hours trying to get it to work with zero luck. It just worked as a basic generic midi controller. When I installed Logic Pro 11.0.x then it instantly started to work. all the pad controls functioned. the knob controllers worked in Analog Labs as expected. The encoders are infantite and as you switch between patches they just adjust relative to the newly loaded plugin/patch

HOWEVER. the same is not true for any of the other Artura instruments that I have tried to use. For them, as the encoders are running as absolute rather than relative, even when in Arturia mode on the minilab3 turning the encoders causes the linked midi value to snap to the absolute value position that the encoder is at. I. have the question outstanding with Arturia support but haven’t heard back yet.

  1. The pads on the minilab3 feel fine for me. I have found that I wanted to use MCC app and adjust the sensitivity of them and the pressure curve as they are not as sensitive by default as other pads that I have tried by default. but after making the change, they act as I was expecting. I reset them to be logarithmic setting where they are more sensitive at the light pressure but drop off the harder you press.

  2. The side of midi2.0 is a fun one. I don’t know if there is just a firmware release that will add it as the standard is so new that nobody really is pushing the full capabilities of it. Like the one that I am sort of excited about is the ability of bi-directional feature announcement and handshaking. So the idea that when you plug in your midi controller to a synth, it will detect the number and type of encoders/sliders/pads and buttons and the synth can automatically map itself to the device. now for this to take place it sounds like there has to be likely more than just a simple patch happening inside firmware. I am curious as to what features of midi2 you are interested in. I have said to others, that midi2 sadly was a solution to a set of problems that we didn’t know we really had and to the most part have been solved with the DAW.

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#23

Hey - fellow Canadian here too! :wave:

Have you placed an order yet or are you waiting for the Keylab to be in stock?

None of my go-to retailers can confirm an ETA.

Thanks for the insights, appreciate it.

I also have a minilab for travel but it’s hard to compare it with a Keylab.

Pads, keybed… They’re hardly sharing any components it seems.

As for firmware update, I was hoping polyphonic aftertouch could be added this way.

I personally don’t see any usage for MIDI 2.0 and didn’t know it was even a thing before researching the mk3.

#24

Only Arturia truly know the answer to that. it’s something that the keybed itself has to be able to physically facilitate. We cannot know if the keybed they have used is PA capable. It seems unlikely though: it is a desirable feature, so if it was eventually going to be ‘switched on’ via a firmware update, I would have expected Arturia to have said so at product-launch.

#25

Jon. Coming from an engineering background myself, I would point out that the keybed would not likely be the limiting problem. As the keys themselves have the ability to detect an aftertouch pressure on any single key accurately then its is more than likely that each key has a sensor to detect after pressure and respond to it.

Think of it like the iPhone that use to have an aftertouch force feedback function. The screen had the ability to do multi touch and the ability to sense when the pressure increased on a part of the phone touch surface to perform other functions depending on the pressure given,. So this technology isn’t all that novel or new. Apple didn’t change the screen or its sensors when it took the function away, they just didn’t include it in the code for IOS to take advantage of what the screen could do.

Where the likely limitation is in the controller bus that sends the signals out. it has only so much bandwidth allocated to sensor data. The firmware would control what sensor inputs the ‘plc’ inside the keylab are triggered to do what and how the signal is then output through the usb port. The USB is a limiting factor as it only had a fixed amount of bandwidth and even tough you are connecting with a usb-c port, it may be limiting itself to a USB1 or usb2 generic connection type for compatibility sake. (so features and functions are the same if you plug into an old computer with usb1 as if you plugged into a new usb-4 computer). So when you start to stack everything up Arturia had to decide things like do we want 16 pads that can be censored at once and use X amount of data bandwidth, or if we reduce them down to 12 pads on the KeyLab that will free up 25% of that bandwidth that we can use elsewhere like having a nice graphical picture on a screen display.
Equally, the team can say we want to have 16 note polyphonic sensing for note key pressing on the piano keyboard, rather than have 8 note polyphonic sensing with full polyphonic aftertouch as the two would use the same amount of bandwidth. Or likely what they did was by removing some of those pads, freed up the bandwidth to put in a single channel data available to support channel aftertouch as that requires only a fraction of bandwidth to support over true polyphonic aftertouch.

You may note that NI doesn’t have any pads on their S class keyboards at all. Now if Arturia took the bold move and said that their KeyLAB MK3 required USB3 to function and was not fully backwards compatible with USB2 then perhaps a firmware upgrade could give us MIDI2.0 and PolyAftertouch. But this is all totally speculation without access to the actual hardware., but based on engineering and manufacturing knowledge in the industry.

#26

Tomtumak. I have mine on order with Long&McQuade for coming up 6 weeks now, I first saw them advertised to buy in August and thought I’d like to see one as I might want to upgrade my old Novation. They had them listed as arriving mid Aug, so I waited… Then that changed to end of aug, that changed to beginning of Sept…

If you go onto Arturia Distributors you can see the info for Jam who is bringing them into Canada. They don’t want to hear from me again, but the last I spoke to them they were pretty confident they should be arriving on October 11. So we can hope they will be here soon.

I don’t know what version of minilab you have., but from the side of the encoder dials, they should be the same as the full keylab ones. I did during my process of waiting for the MK3 get to sit down with a used MK2 and found it very pleasant to work with. Enough for me to decide to buy the 61 key MK3 and pay the deposit to get it onto special order.
(as a side note, I did try the Akai MP249 and couldn’t get it to even connect at all to play anything on Logic Pro with my MacBook. so I sort of ruled them out as even a option.

#27

Hi all,

Can we please all try to respect the topic. Please start new threads for other topics.

This thread is not about Minilab or sale.

Please keep the forum as tidy as possible.

#28

For me there are mainly 5 reasons to have midi 2.0. It’s:

  1. High resolution data instead of only 128 values - for example very fine Velocity response and smooth no stepping parameter tweaking.
  2. Number of midi CC’s
  3. Very low latency midi - Also tighter midi sync
  4. Two way communication
  5. No need for MPE that’s based on Midi 1.0 - MPE was probably none excisting if midi 2.0 excisted then.

I think everybody can find something in Midi 2.0 they will use with joy.

For example Rolands flagship controller have high resolution midi 2.0 velocity already.

The question is how fast midi 2.0 will be implemented overall. But some things do already work. I hope more will work very soon.

I think i understand Arturias choices. But i had hoped for a Midi 2.0 prepared keyboard controller with switchable channel and Traditionel Polyphonic Aftertouch, - and with multiple controller pages. That said, then i can’t see any midi controller on the market with this features that also have Release Velocity that i want too and faders.

#29

Udo very recently announced the RBN-1 Performance Ribbon Controller for around $250/£208/€230 + taxes. Although not released yet, it apparently… “works seamlessly with any device with an expression pedal”. For me it would have been wonderful if this had been integrated into the KL MK3 rather than a separate item. Despite this, I am mulling over its future purchase and hoping Arturia take note of it too.

I wonder if it will be left to newer smaller hungrier companies like Udo to push the boundaries of controller expression? If a company like Udo can produce such a product at that price with (I assume) fewer international industry contacts and a newer supply chain, surely Arturia could have made it for less and integrated it into their keyboards.

#30

Like I said it depends on the keybed they have used. Coming not from an engineering background but from a “I had to crack my Mk1 open to fix it” background, I found out that the aftertouch is literally just one sensor-strip running the length of the keybed with one cable coming from it. The reason every key appears to have the ability to detect aftertouch is because they’re pressing the same sensor-strip. No amount of firmware-patching could turn my Mk1 into a poly AT keybed: the hardware just literally does not facilitate it.

(EDIT: Anyone with a Mk3 feeling brave enough to crack it open and void the warranty just so we can see if the keybed is wired in a way that could theoretically facilitate poly AT, feel free. I’d love to know.)

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#31

I have Arturia Keylab 61 mk2 (and mk 3 essential 49) and I love it.

I also have the Native Instruments Kontrol S88 mk3 and I also love that.

The Kontrol mk3 series was released way too early before the keyboards internal software was ready, this has come back to haunt NI, thankfully a year after release the software is getting there (how they could release it without midi templates is anyone’s guess)

Regarding aftertouch, I first used it on my SQ80 in the eighties and while I have it on my S88 mk3, I would prefer the poly aftertouch on my 61 note synth style keyboard

Regarding midi v2, the more hardware that has it, the more software will be produced that take advantage of it, that’s why I’m a little disappointed that the Keylab mk3 hasn’t got it, the other reason, sure at this moment I have zero use for midi 2, but I tend to use instruments for at least 5 years if not a lot more, and I want to future proof my purchases. (Had the Keylab mk3 had poly aftertouch I might have broken this habit and traded my mk2 after less than a year)

There’s something about using the Native Instruments S mk3 series that oozes quality to me, can’t quite put my finger on it.

Regarding faders, I too would have liked them on my S88, but I can buy a set for next to nothing and place them where I want, a complaint I’ve seen about the Keylab is having them on the right rather than the left.

I only bought my Keylab mk2 in January after a major shift around, selling my electric piano etc. For months I’ve been waiting for the Keylab mk3 wondering if I should have waited, to be honest I’m glad I didn’t, there’s nothing in the mk3 that makes me think ”want want want”

The main thing (after lack of poly aftertouch) I dislike about my Keylab mk2 is the screen, my main dislike about the AstroLab is also the imo small circular screen. I just don’t get it.

Screens cost next to nothing nowadays, I honestly expected Arturia to put a large screen on their mk3 and possibly make it a touch screen to get one over on Native instruments.

I bought my NI Komplete S88 mk3 after watching NI demoing it, using it with Arturias CS80, see from the vid below starting at 34 mins and 44 seconds

Sure the NI s mk3 series isn’t for everyone and we all like different things, but imo both the NI s mk3 and the Arturia Keylab mk2 are superb

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#32

I’m not a serious finger drummer but my subjective impression is that these pads are there more for clip launching than for demanding finger drumming. The sensitiveness is good and you can play drums alright, especially if you are fine with 100% pressure. If you need more nuance playing with different pad pressures I believe it’s going to be more difficult than with MPC / Maschine pads.

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#33

now I was told that the S mk3 was supposed to be mini 2.0 so does it give more than the 127 midi levels and all the other stuff talked about or did they just slap a midi2.0 sticker and ship a glorified midi 1.0 device? just curious

#34

Thanks for the insight.

I’m more and more in doubt now. Should I just keep my MPK249?

That’s disappointing.

#35

are you selling the MPK249 in order to pay for a new midi keyboard? I ask because there is nothing inside the midi world that states that thou shall not have more than one midi controller hooked up at any given time.

As it stands with me. In my own setup ive got a Novation Launch Pad S that is so old there are no drivers available for it and doesn’t even support the configuration software to update anything. But as it does work as a non pressure sensitive 12x12 midi pad. What I use it for is with Better Touch Tool that can read it as a midi controller and ive scripted up shortcuts and functions for my Mac mini to do things like an shotcut keyboard. Also have a Launch Control XL that works rather well right now for when I do mixing, so until I get the KeyLAB and play with it to see if it works better for that function, it will stay connected too.

If you need the pads on the MPK249 to do your drumming and other pad related functions, then if it’s hooked into the computer it will just work fine along side another midi controller. so you can have both that and an Arturia KeyLAB running at the same time.

#36

  • DISPLAY: What do you want for this price range? The KK S-49 is $749.00! I think it’s cool we get a display at all, lol.

  • DISPLAYS ABOVE FADERS: Again, it’s $450.00 bucks new. Sounds like a premium touch to me.

  • POLY AFTERTOUCH: Never had it, but it does sound badass. You might have a point here for sure.

  • NKS integration: My KK never integrated with anything EXCEPT Komplete Kontrol I hated that. This MK3 I have a profile for my Abbey Road Strings, SSO, and even Pigments it’s great! It also integrates with Cubase like a dream.

  • MPE, MIDI 2.0: After reading about these cause I never heard about them, they do sound super cool, however they also sound like a premium type option, not something that will be implemented in a $450.00 keyboard option. MIDI 2.0 sounds to me like it’s for people who nerd out on MIDI (I do not), in that case a more premium MIDI controller sounds necessary.

  • PADS: I like the slimmer form-factor and I don’t think I ever used 16 pads, I barely use more than 2-3 laying down drums. Small complaint, and if it kept the price down, I’m all for it, just use the banks option.

  • TRACK SELECTION BUTTON: You can change the track select from the knob to the two left buttons below the screen pretty easily. Personally, I like the knob.

  • I/O: Yeah, I can see the frustration there, though I don’t care about I/O past a sustain pedal. However, again let’s look at price. I’m sure they had to skimp on I/O to get a bigger screen (which I am all for), or something like that.

  • EXPRESSION AND RIBBON CONTROL STRIP: I don’t even know what those are, but I love the built in MIDI FX Hold, Chord, Scale, Arp and Quantize. Super fun to noodle with and get creative.

  • RELEASE A PRO VERSION: I agree, perhaps with the sales of these more entry-level MIDI controllers, they can roll out an 88 key version with all your extra goodies, at a premium price.

I sound like an Arturia fanboi, maybe I am but it’s because I love what they do from their MIDI controllers to their plugins. So, that’s been my 2 cents. Personally, it sounds like you want too much from a cheaper controller and you are probably better off spending a bunch of money and getting what you want.

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#37

I guess the thing that’s disappointing people is that we were hoping this would be a premium option. Arturia already has budget options in MiniLab 3 and the KeyLab Essential mk3. The KeyLab (non-Essential) range is meant to be their premium offering, and a lot of people (including me) were hoping for a mk3 that would be a significant upgrade from the mk2 versions. Instead, we got something that is updated but not always upgraded. It actually lost some features from the mk2. I think it’s understandable: maybe Arturia decided there wouldn’t be enough of a market for a more high-end option, or maybe they actually are preparing a new tier. It can still be disappointing to people who were hoping for something else though, especially with no guarantee (or even any real rumours) that a Pro version will ever arrive.

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#38

Spoke to an Arturia rep. yesterday at Machina Bristronica in Bristol UK.

Lots of other exhibitors there also with Euro rack etc. etc. & most of them were using Arturia Beatstep pro or other Arturia controllers, which shows how reliable, competent & respected they are.

Only saw two KL3’s in use & neither were connected to a DAW.

When I asked about the KL3 & the reasoning behind it’s construction, this was the reply.

Arturia asked 20,000 users what they wanted for the new KL3, so this is what they produced.

People didn’t care about not having 16 drum pads or poly after touch or a big screen & the cost of fitting all of these would take the product nearer £1000ish mark, so out of the reach of most or target buyers.

Also the keyboard would have to be a lot wider, like the Poly Brute to accommodate the longer keys for poly after touch, so physically bigger & heavier.

I understand this business decision, but still feel disappointed.

End of discussion. I guess.
Regards
Mike

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#39

This is a really good point actually, I’m not super familiar with the product line. Very good point. Again though, to pack a lot of that stuff into a $450.00 49 Key controller I think just isn’t possible in 2024.

I don’t know, I will admit if the Komplete Kontrol had faders, and if it integrated perfectly with Cubase, and if it was easy to program the MIDI to control my different plug-ins (not just theirs). I probably would have splurged, I will admit.

#40

I’m one of those 20k users for sure. Make it cheaper and still high quality, I could care less about poly after touch (or after touch really). Don’t care about a big screen I already have 2 32" monitors lol, and yeah scrap the drum pads.

Very happy with the MK3 it’s everything I wanted that wasn’t the MK2

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