Ableton Live 11 Parameter/MIDI Mapping Desync?

I have a weird issue with my Arturia KeyLab Essential 61 (“mk.1”) in Ableton Live Lite 11 where if I add a plugin parameter to the Ableton GUI (or to the Live device window, if that makes more sense?), then midi learn it (which is the only way Ive gotten takeover modes to work with non-Arturia plugins like Surge XT btw, even though I already have a proper custom map loaded into the MIDI controller itself via the Arturia MIDI Control Center), I can turn the knob and it shows a change both in the VST GUI and in the DAW GUI, but if I make a rack out of it (to save added parameters when saving to a preset), and then load that saved rack, a weird thing happens: If I turn the knob it reflects in the plugin GUI like expected, but the added parameter in the DAW GUI does not move, despite it still having a connection (as evidenced by the fact that if I change instrument presets from within the GUI of for example Surge XT, any added parameter changes its name accordingly), the MIDI mapping from within Live is lost for some reason.

Now this is not the biggest of deals for me at the moment since I am only adding the parameters to the Live GUI to make the takeover modes work (ie to prevent sudden jumps when I change presets or use the mouse to change something in the plugin and then touch the respective knob) and so far making a custom mapping for one of the User slots built into the memory of the MIDI controller itself to for example use my most commonly used sliders and things in Surge XT (common things like the 8 available macros in Surge and the ADSR sliders for the main LFO and Envelope) is more than enough since I am not at all close to a level of proficiency at the moment where I would really need more (or expect to need to change more things on the fly), but it is kind of annoying and I cannot imagine this is intended behaviour since it would make it an absolute pain to setup (prohibetively so) each and everytime should you HAVE to do so with some specific plugin for whatever reason, so I thought I would ask.

Compability issue? Non-implementation? User error? Bug? Defect?
I am trying to figure out what it is so I would really appreciate any input, or if someone had similar woes.

PS. In case this turns out to be a problem on the part of Ableton, I posted this to their forum as well.

Hi there,

I don’t think this is a compatibility issue or user error. It’s simply a limitation of how Ableton stores MIDI mappings. Racks do not save MIDI learn assignments, but Live Sets do.

Pretty sure the only way would be Max for Live devices that store CC mappings internally, but that’s advanced.

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Thats…kind of dumb, if you allow me to say, but Im going to try the Live set thing, I could always make a Template set.

Making a Template set seems to have worked, thanks :slight_smile: