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Author Topic: Bug: Initial Touch Response  (Read 498 times)

LBH

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Bug: Initial Touch Response
« on: May 12, 2022, 12:12:44 am »
Hi,

The Initial Brilliance and Level in the Synth Lines Touch Responce sections does not respond to Envelope Release settings, or to the Release in the panel left of the keys.

LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 05:09:06 pm »
Arturia can you please confirm this serious bug.
Also because i can understand that for some reason not all users can see all forums for the new VC9 instruments yet.  Can Arturia? I hope you can.

LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2022, 08:29:59 pm »
In case it's needed.

As an example to test the Initial Touch Response Brilliance try this:
1. Select New Preset/ Default preset.
2. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Release time to max.
3. Play and release note. You get the exspected behavior that all sound get release.

Now try this:
1. Select New Preset/ Default preset.
2. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Release time to maximum.
3. Set Synth Line 1 LPF to minimum
4. Set Synth Line 1 Initial Touch Response Brilliance to max.
5. play and release a note. Exspected behavior is the applied Brilliance amount get the VCA release applied, but it's not.
It's the same if with the Synth Lines VCF envelopes applied filter amount and release settings. Ie set AL, D and R to MAX, while also the VCA envelopes VCA release time is set to max. Still no release for the applied filter amount.
If you raise the Release Time in the Sustain pedal section when the Original Sustain pedal modes if off not using the pedal, or when using the pedal with the two original Sustain pedal modes give the same result - no release time is applied.

Conclusion is the Initial Touch Response Brilliance do not get Release applied.



To test the Initial Touch Response Level try this:
1. Select New Preset/ Default preset.
2. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Release time to max.
3. Set Synth Line 1 Level to minimum.
4. Set Synth Line Initial Touch response level to maximum.
5. Play and release a note. Exspected behavior is you have a sound in release phase. But you have not.
If you raise the Release Time in the Sustain pedal section when the Original Sustain pedal modes if off not using the pedal, or when using the pedal with the two original Sustain pedal modes give the same result - no release time is applied.

Conclusion is the Initial Touch Response Level do not get Release applied.

Matthieu_Arturia

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2022, 12:14:54 pm »
Hi LBH.
again thanks a lot for the very detailed feedback and for providing steps.
Regarding the initial brillance, it is a different envelope that trigs the opening of the filter.
Right now i'm not sure about this behavior, i will check on the original machine and come back to you.
In any case, by design or not, this sounds like a real constraint and we will discuss it.
Cheers!
QA Technician

LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 04:15:53 pm »
Hi Matthieu.

What have you found out about this?

In case: I can suggest you try to the Electric Piano EP on the original colored presets buttons, and try to play it like a Piano also using the original sustain pedal. This clearly show the problem. No joy at all.

Cheers
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 04:19:34 pm by LBH »

flyset

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2022, 11:22:20 am »
I've tested this, I think this is a a bug too. (Maybe not and it is like that on the original)

Probably the keyboard release behavior is routed to the GATE and not the VCA ENV. Which may be ok for the touch response but not the inital level response.

I also noticed that keyboard attack behavior of the initial level response is also somehow not correctly routed. If you keep the key pressed it decays. Is that the correct behavior?

Try this:
1. Select New Preset/ Default preset.
2. Set Synth Line 1 VCA 1 VCF Level to minimum
3. Set Synth Line 1 VCA1 Sine Level to maximum
4. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Envelope1 Attack to minimum
5. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Envelope1 Decay to minimum
6. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Envelope1 Sustain to maximum
7. Set Synth Line 1 VCA Envelope1 Release to minimum
8. Set Synth Line 1 VCA1 Level to minimum
9. Set Synth Line 1 VCA1 Initial Level to maximum

Also the setting of how much Initial Level (Dynamic Range) you can adjust is a little bit too limited. How was is it on the original?

But one can use the modulation in the advanced settings which has a completely different behavior.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 11:39:55 am by flyset »

LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2022, 10:06:31 pm »
Thanks for your contribution flyset.

Your thread here: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=109545.0#msg190487 i also think add to the issue just like this Sustain Pedal thread: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=109464.0#msg190259

yes.
It does'nt matter what can be done in the advanced section.
I don't wan't dummies in an emulation like in a bad toy. I wan't a true emulation that work to make it a joy to work with - yes to wanting to use the application at all, and  to give it the sales value.

In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV3qDUTVsNo at 13:30 it's clear to hear that the Release is applied to the Touch Response modulation like i exspect.

The Initial Touch Response level raise the VCA level that is a level for the VCA Envelope. That include the Sustain and the Release.

The Touch Response is'nt a completely parallel system. The modulations shall be applied to the excisting settings and go thru the Envelopes like raising the Filters and the VCA manually.
The Arturia CS-80 V4 have a huge bug here. It has to be fixed. I hope Arturia allready is working on it. This bug is a reason why i have'nt spend monye on the VC9 yet. I would like to know it will be fixed. I doubt it will ever be fixed, if not right away.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 10:18:29 pm by LBH »

flyset

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 09:33:20 pm »
Yes I have to agree with you here, in the video it is obvious. Arturia has to fix this, I never said it's ok because we can use the advanced modulation settings. I want this fixed and behaving like the original too.

One can also see in the video that the initial response dynamic range of the original CS80 is not so big as I thought or as it was in the previous V3 versions.

Nice video btw.

Also here is the Manual of the original CS80, there are some interesting insights about how the synth works on Page 41:
http://dl.lojinx.com/analoghell/YamahaCS80-InstructionManual.pdf


LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2022, 12:07:24 am »
Nice video btw.
Yes. Dave Spiers/ GForce Software show love to the real Yamaha CS-80.

LBH

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Re: Bug: Initial Touch Response
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2022, 02:56:52 am »
Release has been added to The Touch Response in version 4.0.1.2681.

I have been studying. It's hard to find examples. But if i now understand it correct, then i actually think the Touch Response functionality - as it work now in V4 - is the only emulation ever from any manufactor that actually emulate the original hardwares behavior correct.

I attach a clip from the original Yamaha CS-80 hardware user manual that explain the feature, and tell about the duration time for the Touch Response pulse. That's really unique as the modulation dies out and are'nt added to the Envelope Sustain.

Arturia - Can this understanding be confirmed to be correct please?
A video to show and explain this functionality using the hardware synth would be great.

 

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