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Author Topic: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update  (Read 248 times)

clos820

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[SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« on: December 04, 2019, 06:40:46 am »
I really hope ive over looked something, but I don't think so. My setup is such that I have all my synths getting midi clock from my Pyramid Sequencer. All this has worked perfectly before. After the update to MatrixBrute v2.0 - it simply does not respond to external midi sync. If I load a factory patch, turn on the arpeggiator, play notes, the arp plays fine, turn on the midi-sync - nothing..Tempo readout does not reflect incoming rate either. The sequencer does the same. no playback when Midi sync is on.  Ive toggled through the settings in Midi control center, no joy. I have tried using the new system mode as well, no joy. I know midi data is getting to the Matrix Brute because if I playback a sequence on midi ch1, and set the synth ch1, it will playback the sequence notes it receives, but the midi clock is not respected, for the arp, nor sequencer. please tell me I am missing something obvious...have not reported a bug because I cannot believe this would be an oversight.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 11:51:05 am by Edouard_Arturia »

endreola

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2019, 07:30:49 am »
I haven't noticed clock issues between Pyramid and MxB after updating firmware to v2.

For me, all MIDI runs over DIN A and the MxB sequencer starts and stops via Pyramid transport buttons.  In my setup MxB runs over MIDI channel 5 and both SYNC MIDI A and START/STOP MIDI A are set to SEND.  Haven't tried the Arpegiator.

Can also control the MxB sequencer via CV (Pyramid Env Out) by setting ASSIGN ENV OUT TO DIN SYNC to MxB Gate In port, albeit that is a bit off topic.

I did once run into a similar issue after upgrading firmware on Pyramid and for some odd reason the MxB Track on Pyramid got re-assigned from MIDI A to CV.

clos820

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2019, 06:51:24 pm »
Thank you for your reply. So this morning I tested again, MB is not the issue. I ran midi clock from TR8S direct to MB, and it works as expected. Iíll have to look closer at the Pyramid..strange thing is this all worked prior to v2 MB update...

clos820

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2019, 07:12:38 pm »
Ok I know what changed; MB now seems to require Start/Stop midi command in order to listen to incoming clock. This is different behavior than prior firmware. Iím not sure I want this behavior, it should be optional. I mean clock if present should be respected regardless of start/stop command. Anyone have an opinion on that? I see use cases where you may not want your arp or internal sequence to run with start/stop, but be in sync, and ready to play when you decide to start them, possibly in a later verse of your song, etc..

endreola

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2019, 01:18:56 am »
Just as a sanity check, if I filter out Realtime Events between the Pyramid and MxB then I get the same results with the MxB's sequencer not starting. But don't recall how the prior version handled it.
My workflow typically uses the Pyramid as master clock which slaves other gear.  This works for the most part except for certain devices (e.g. Mother-32) which doesn't recognize start/stop.

Was going to downgrade the MxB firmware and retest but don't have that code readily available.

endreola

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2019, 08:56:53 pm »
As a follow-on response to my prior reply, I was successful downgrading the firmware back to v1.1.0.73 but I get the same behavior as observed in v2 where the SEQ won't auto start unless it receives a clock start message.

Thank you again DrJ for providing the older firmware.

clos820

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 06:19:01 am »
Ok wow thanks for checking  with the older firmware on your system, this behavior is for sure different for me without changing anything else but the V2 firmware.  I will downgrade my unit over the weekend, and check the same. I think the start message is probably standard behavior for most sequencers, so if it didn't work that way before on my unit, that was not correct behavior, however for me it feels odd because I was used to it operating that way, and this change is an adjustment for me, but one I can live with, just need to adjust my workflow.  Thanks again for checking on your system with the older firmware.

endreola

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Re: Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 08:12:11 am »
No problem at all.  Keep us posted on your efforts.

clos820

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2019, 07:59:18 pm »
So I was about To downgrade the MxB and ran into some questions;
The way I planned to downgrade was take my laptop(MacBook) and load the older midi control center on it; I had the older firmware and copied it to the laptop as well. But after getting it all connected the midi control center(v 1.7.0.217) reports the MxB firmware as 2.0.0.102 and says there is an update available to v 2.0.0.870
So I stopped here. I don’t want to damage my MxB so not sure if the provide I’m following is wrong or how I should go about downgrading to previous release firmware. Also is this new 2.0.0.870 a hotfix I want??  As a test I connected the MxB back to the v 1.10.0.1354 midi control center on my studio Mac and it just reports firmware 2.0.0 with no update available. Any thoughts? Btw I looked back at a video clip I had of me playing the MxB before the v2 update and can see the ARP is following external clock without having had a midi start command sent prior. Also I found that my other synths ARPs do not require midi start command to follow in sync with clock.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 08:41:45 pm by clos820 »

clos820

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2019, 08:47:02 pm »
So I tried downloading the v 2.0.0.870 - and it failed to download, I imagine that is an internal build that we don't have access to yet. however I was able to downgrade my MxB firmware back to previous release, and tested the ARP with/without sending start midi message, and its behavior reverted to what I expected. The ARP will play and the MxB respects the incoming midi clock WITHOUT sending the midi start message. This matches the behavior of all my other synths again.
I have some video clips showing both and will clip them and put them up later today. I really hope this gets fixed, so even though the thread is marked as solved, this is not really solved. Also the Sequencer behaves the same way. ie before v2.0 you can run the sequencer without start message and it follows external clock.
-- So Iooks like I cannot upload a video clip attachment in a post, file too large, not sure if I can link to it either if I upload it somewhere..anyone know? Thx
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 04:28:37 am by clos820 »

endreola

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 03:39:18 pm »
Hi clos820,

My initial testing was performed solely on the Sequencer and didn't have time to test the Arpeggiator.  So I backreved the MxB again to 1.1.0.73 and performed the same test.  Filtered out Realtime Events messages sent from the Pyramid.  With MxB's MIDI Sync turned on and Realtime Events messages blocked the Arpeggiator did not play.  And as expected, it started once the Realtime Events filter was removed. This was also visually observed using MIDI Monitor app.

As for my setup all MIDI devices are connected in a hub or star configuration to a mio10 midi interface, so there's no MIDI thru, no daisy-chaining, etc.  For me, this provides great control over which messages are sent and received, remapped, etc., on a per device basis. 

So I assume your setup is different and the way that MIDI is configured, which may hold the key why we're experiencing different behavior?

clos820

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 06:05:03 pm »
Hi endreala,   

Here is the thing, midi clock is part of midi real-time events, so filtering will also stop clock data. The setup I have now simplified and tested with just Pyramid direct to MxB from output Midi A. With firmware 1.1.0.73 on MxB, set the pyramid midi out setting for midi A to NOT send midi start message. (Setting start/stop to OFF) - MxB midi sync set to enabled, ARP will play, and clock is present at MxB.
I can repeat this test using my Roland TR8S drum machine, as I can also turn on/off start/stop messages on midi output. MxB responds the same way to that midi source.
And so just to recap- older firmware ARP plays with just midi clock comingnin(no need for start/stop messages)- new firmware ARP requires midi Start/stop message and ignores clock until receiving start/stop message. I have a video showing the issue but don’t know where I can share it or if I can link to it here on forums.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 06:10:17 pm by clos820 »

endreola

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 08:42:21 pm »
Hey clos820,

Yup, I see what you mean -- filtering on Realtime Events was way too course as it also suppressed clock. And I too get the same results with v1 vs v2 Arpeggiator behavior whereby v2 requires clock start unlike in v1.  Thank you for the MIDI education and my apologies for taking you down a rat hole.

If you upload your video to some online drive share (e.g. Dropbox, OneDrive, etc.), then simply click on the Insert Hyperlink icon (globe with page icon) then paste the link in-between the [ url / ] and [ / url ] symbols.


clos820

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Re: [SOLVED]†Midi Sync not working for me after update
« Reply #13 on: Today at 03:50:43 am »
Hi endreola,

Thank you for hanging in there and testing further. I do believe this is a bug in the new firmware. Every other synth I have works like the older firmware did before the update. I went ahead and opened a support ticket with Arturia support.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:31:54 am by clos820 »

 

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