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Author Topic: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4  (Read 137 times)

Voxfort

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Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« on: October 05, 2019, 10:38:12 pm »
Hi,

I am trying to use the AUX pedal input with Analog Lab 4.
I can assign the pedal to a midi control in the stand-alone version of an instrument. E.g. assign AUX 1 to Rotator on/off on the B-3.
That works all fine.
When I use the exact same sound in Analog Lab 4, the AUX assigned features is not working.
Neither with the Generic MIDI controller mapping or with the Keylab MKII mapping.

Can anyone help me with this or give directions in where to search for an solution.
The manual is useless on this issue.

//John

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2019, 10:45:22 pm »
You have allready posted and i answered here: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=95679.msg159512#new

But i repeat here too then.

Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

I don't have a Arturia Controller, but the following works for me.
In B3 i in example can set the Leslie/ Rotor speed and the Brake to be controlled by my X/Y pad. Then when i open Analog Lab, then it work the same without doing anything else, if everything else is in order.

Which OS and DAW do you use?

Which midi CC have you set in B3 for the parameter you wish to control? By default leslie/ rotor speed is set to midi CC 1 (modwheel).
Are you sure it's not a midi CC that's reserved?
Have you mapped the midi CC you use for you AUX for a speciel DAW system?

Are your AUX using the same midi CC - in Analog Lab mode?

Also have you read Analog Labs manual from the bottom of page 41 and the top of page 42?

FYI. You have posted in a forum for a legacy Analog Lab. There is a forum for the current Analog Lab 4 higher up the forum page.

- Now you are in the right forum.

Voxfort

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 10:51:34 pm »
Thank you for your answer. Sorry for choosing the wrong category. Hope its correct now.

I do not use a DAW, I use the Concert Mode in Analog 4 and perform Live.
I do not set the parameter. I connect the pedal to the Keylab Controller and get the default CC for the AUX.
I assign the AUX pedal by going to assign mode and push the pedal. It works fine in the stand-alone version of B-3
I have read the manual from top to bottom, but it does not give much help on the AUX input connection to the Analog Lab 4.

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 11:55:14 pm »
That's ok. Now we are afterall are in the right forum. Just good to have some order.

You unfortunately can't assign the same way in Analog Lab as you can in the individual applications anymore.

Have you read the pages i mentioned in the Analog Lab 4 manual? That's how you assign in Analog Lab 4. But yes it's not described well. It's rather confusing. (It's in the section "3.10.1. Controller Assignment")
In Analog Lab you can only assign parameters from the individual applications to the controls in Analog Lab 4s window. Then i assume, that you at least in generic mode can assign your AUX pedal to that Analog Lab control, if you use a valid midi CC.

But still - does'nt it work, like i describe it work for me with my X/Y pad - at least when in generic controller mode? It's the same i do no matter i use a DAW or Analog Lab 4 in standalone mode. It does work for me - also in Stage mode and Concerts.
The method is this:
1. Assign the AUX in B3 application, and have that be the last load config for that. Close B3.
2. Open Analog Lab 4, and then using the AUX pedal using the same midi CC should control the parameter right away, provided the midi CC is a valid midi CC/ not a reserved one in Analog Lab 4.

Does'nt any of this work?

Voxfort

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2019, 09:12:49 am »
Thank you for helping me out here.

That is exactly what I have tried.
But I can't make it work with the AUX pedal input.
I have tried with the Keylab MK2 midi config and with the Generic, but no reaction either way.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 09:14:43 am by Voxfort »

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2019, 04:35:47 pm »
Which midi CC does your AUX pedal use?

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2019, 06:41:44 pm »
Have you really also tried this:
1. Select Generic Cotroller in the bottom panel of Analog Lab 4.
2. Open B3 inside Analog Lab 4.
3. Click the Assign button that appear in the top panel.
4. Assign a Analog Lab knob to the Rotor speed switch.
5. Click the workwheel button in the bottom panel left of the controller selector.
6. Click the "Enter ASSIGN Mode" button in the window that opens.
7. Assign your AUX pedal to the Analog Lab knob, that you have assigned to the B3s Rotor speed switch.

Does this method work?

Again if not, then please tell what midi CC your AUX pedal use.

I use Windows 10.

Voxfort

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2019, 08:20:01 pm »
I have now tested everything and - Yes, I have tried what you describe, and it kind of works.
I can assign a control to a knob and assign CC#13 and CC#14 (AUX pedal) to that knob.
But it looks like Analog Lab 4 is not properly activated. Like I don't have the correct license.
I can only choose standard controls or exchange the standard controls from the list and not add new controls.
I can't import midi-configs or presets.
I am using Mojave 10.14.6. V Collection 7 and Keylab 61 MKII. Analog Lab 4.0.5.3023.
Information under "My Arturia" states that V Collection 7 is activated.
I have reinstalled everything with Arturia Software Center, but the problem resist.
I can assign an existing control to a new knob, and edit that knob to a new control, but the former control will disappear from the list and two knobs will have the same function. I can't assign the CC# unless I have assigned an existing control from the list and re-assign that with a new control. I can assign the CC# to an exiting knob with an existing control.
Does it make sense?
How do I activate greyed-out knobs without using an already configured control?

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2019, 09:41:55 pm »
I have now tested everything and - Yes, I have tried what you describe, and it kind of works.
I can assign a control to a knob and assign CC#13 and CC#14 (AUX pedal) to that knob.

Good that something work now Voxfort.

You can also try this:
1. Open the B3 application as standalone, and then be sure the Rotor speed is set to midi CC#13 or 14 (like your pedal use). Then close the application.
2. Open Analog Lab and load a B3 preset that use the Leslie. Without doing anything else is it still so, that your pedal does'nt work when it use midi CC#13 or 14 - the same you have set in the B3 application?

I'm not sure that this method allways will work. But as i wrote, then it work for my X/Y pad.
And if the midi CC for that parameter is changed in the full application, then it will not work, unless the controller parameter also is changed.

But it looks like Analog Lab 4 is not properly activated. Like I don't have the correct license.
It is correct it seems.

I can only choose standard controls or exchange the standard controls from the list and not add new controls.
That's how Analog Lab works now it look like.

I can't import midi-configs or presets.
Correct - You can't import configs for the full applications, that you open inside Analog Lab.

I can assign an existing control to a new knob, and edit that knob to a new control, but the former control will disappear from the list and two knobs will have the same function. I can't assign the CC# unless I have assigned an existing control from the list and re-assign that with a new control. I can assign the CC# to an exiting knob with an existing control.
Does it make sense?
Yes that's the same for me.

How do I activate greyed-out knobs without using an already configured control?
Afaik you can't. I also think this is very annoying.
You can only assign new parameters from a full application, if you allready have set a parameter for the knob. And you have to select a parameter none of the other knobs are set to control, as both those knobs otherwise will be set to the new parameter, that you select from the full application GUI. I assume it's because Analog Lab have a limited list of parameters, and that you can't make this list longer, so parameters has to be exchanged if you wan't to use one that is'nt on the list, and the only way for Analog Lab to know wich parameter to exchange is to have it selected/ assigned for the relevant control allready.

Voxfort

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2019, 10:03:35 pm »
Thanks for your input.

The CC# is not saved with the sound, it is saved with the MIDI config.
Thatís why I tried to export the MIDI config, but it canít be imported in Analog Lab.

The list of controls can change because some presets have long lists and others have short lists.
I have to find out how to edit the list, any ideas?

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2019, 11:20:03 pm »
Your welcome.

The CC# is not saved with the sound, it is saved with the MIDI config.
Thatís why I tried to export the MIDI config, but it canít be imported in Analog Lab.
You mean your pedal assigment to a knob in Analog Lab is'nt saved?
You can't import a B3 config in Analog Lab.

You have a Arturia controller. Use your Midi Control Center.
Afaik you can't change the midi CCs for Analog Lab modes controls. But i assume you can set your pedal to the same midi CC as a knob.
You also have User templates.

Other midi configs are also availble for Analog Lab when Generic midi controller is selected. When you click the workwheel icon left of the controller selector, then it's in the pop up window.
This method works for me.

I suggest you read Analog Labs and Midi Control Center manuals.
I don't have a Arturia controller. I can't tell you for certain, how your controller works. You have to try it out.
Many times there are more than one way to do things. It's to use what's work best for you in a given situation.

The list of controls can change because some presets have long lists and others have short lists.
I have to find out how to edit the list, any ideas?
I don't understand this question.
You edit Analog Labs limited parameter list when you exchange parameters, like we both wrote. It is that list you talk about - right?

Voxfort

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2019, 02:27:22 pm »
Thank you for all your help, it's very inspiring.

I think I figured it out now.
When developing a preset in the instrument, you can assign controls to any knob from the midi controller.
The midi-config is saved with the preset in the preset-database.
When you load the preset from Analog Lab 4 you load the default midi-config which comes with the instrument.
The default can't be changed and overrides the preset-midi-config on the controls used.
You can move the default features to new knobs, but you can't add new features and the default-config is reserved.
So you can't use the unused knobs in Analog Lab to something else than the features in the list.

You can assign a midi-control to an instrument feature which is on the Analog Lab list for the instrument and it will work.
e.g. assign AUX 1 to Volume on the instrument and the pedal will adjust the volume on the instrument in Analog Lab.
But it won't work in Analog Lab, if you assign AUX 1 to swell-pedal on the instrument since it is already assigned to the exp. input and not in the instrument feature list of Analog Lab. (You can assign exp. input CC# value to AUX pedal in MIDI control center, but that is not a very flexible way to implement it)

How it works (explained for myself)
In Analog Lab the MIDI controller controls the controller on the screen and the controller on the screen controls the instrument.
The controller on the screen have a pre-defined and limited amount of features, and that can't be changed and it supersedes the midi-config you saved with the preset on the instrument. Unused midi-controls can't be used to implement new features on the instrument in Analog Lab. There is one strange exception. You can assign Pitch-bend and Mod-wheel to features on the instrument and those will work on the preset in Analog Lab.

So back to my initial problem: Can I use Concert Mode to perform and control by my self-designed presets?
No, only with the limitations defined by Arturia.
Since lesley-speed is not in the list of features on the Analog Lab version of the B3 organ, I can only control it from the Mod-wheel and I can't latch stop/run (pitch-bender) from a unused dial or a AUX foot-switch.  :'(

It would be great if the above worked the same way as when you assign features in Live/Mixer to controls.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 03:07:28 pm by Voxfort »

LBH

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Re: Using Keylab MKII AUX pedal in Analog Lab 4
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2019, 09:55:48 pm »
I must say, that i think having Expession pedal midi CC#11 to control B3s Swell pedal, and the Modwheel midi CC#01 by default mapping is a logic choice. It's the controls any hardware controllers will have before they have extra pedal inputs and X/Y pads/ Joysticks and whatever extra possibilities.
And Pitch bender is'nt a midi CC control.

Both midi CC#01 and 11 is reserved in Arturias applications, as they are in many other vendors applications. Like other reserved midi CCs they are used in modulation matrixes and other dedicated tasks. And Pitch Bender is just that.
Reserved midi CCs can't be assigned freely, and so can't the Pitch bender. That's quite normal, even if some application might can use theese controls otherwise.


What i wonder about is, if the Analog Lab mode in Arturias controllers really does'nt offer an easy way to have the extra pedals to control parameters.
I can't see why the AUX pedals is'nt in Analog Labs control surface, when that control surface is selected in Analog Lab. Then one should just pick a parameter in the list to assign one, just like for any other controls on the control surface.

There are ways i can get things to work. And there are ways where you can get things to work. But i have a hard time to understand, if especially you with a Arturia controller can't get this to work in an easier way, no matter you are in Analog mode or User mode or whatever.
Shall i understand you, like you have found a very easy way to use the AUX pedals? i hope so. I would like to think there is.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 09:58:01 pm by LBH »

 

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