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Author Topic: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)  (Read 580 times)

cboshuizen

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Can I send data back to the keyboard when in a user map, and in any other DAW? For example, can I send back the current automation value back to the rotary encoders so they remain updated? What are the midi port and midi parameters to do so?


LBH

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 08:43:47 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

I don't have an Arturia controller yet. And i'm no expert on this. But as far as i know then the knobs are endless encoders, and i believe they will have to recieve data to function correct.

According to the manual you also should have selectable pickup feature for the other controls. If that actually mean a parameter will not move until the control reach the value the parameter allready have, then i think that also only can work, if it get a value send to it.

So i would believe your Arturia controller recieve data. It's more a question if your applications - like your DAW - send the data, and if you have your controller correctly set up.

cboshuizen

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 06:26:45 am »
Thanks, yes, that's as far as I have gotten so far. The controllers work fine sending data, but the issue is if I change context in the DAW, of course the controller no longer matches the set value in the DAW. So, are there generic instructions for sending DAW controller values back to the keyboard? I can't find this anywhere.

Thanks!

LBH

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 08:44:17 pm »
My point is, that i believe your Arturia controller does recieve data.

What happens when you use your encoders (knobs)? Endless encoders should just change a parameter from it's current value. So is'nt that the case? I would exspect the encoders does recieve current values, as i can't see the point in enless encoders otherwise.

What happens when you use the Pickup setting for your faders in DAW mode? This might not work as i exspect a pickup function to work. In Keylab MKIIs manual the description for the pickup feature is like i wan't it to work, and does'nt only work in DAW mode. The description for the Essential controller is different, but perhaps it's the same anyway.

What happens when you use buttons? Don't know if Arturia buttons recieve data.


If you mean you wan't to have the controls themself to psyically move when you change values in your DAW, then you need a motorized controller that may have this feature.

cboshuizen

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 09:17:39 pm »
Thanks again for your help.  I simply want to know, can I have the DAW send the current parameter value back to the rotatory encoder, to reset the value it thinks it is set at. Everything else works fine as expected. And yes, the keyboard can receive data, as I can send the play/stop data over the mackie interface just fine. I am also not talking about the faders, because yes, of course, they won't move so my question would be pointless =)  For rotary encoders, it is a valid question.
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What happens when you use your encoders (knobs)? Endless encoders should just change a parameter from it's current value. So is'nt that the case?
This part works, moving the knob sends a value to the DAW.
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I would exspect the encoders does recieve current values, as i can't see the point in enless encoders otherwise.
This part does not seem to work. My DAW is not sending back values. Changing the mapped value in the DAW does not change the encoder current value.
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What happens when you use the Pickup setting for your faders in DAW mode? This might not work as i exspect a pickup function to work. In Keylab MKIIs manual the description for the pickup feature is like i wan't it to work, and does'nt only work in DAW mode. The description for the Essential controller is different, but perhaps it's the same anyway.
Pickup works as expected, but I'm trying to do better than that. 
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What happens when you use buttons? Don't know if Arturia buttons recieve data.
Mostly the buttons do not receive values either. I could not control the 3 assignable buttons. I could send data to the mackie transport controls by sending over the Mackie protocol midi port, they are just mapped to note values.
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If you mean you wan't to have the controls themself to psyically move when you change values in your DAW, then you need a motorized controller that may have this feature.
Nope, not what I mean. I have a faderport 8 in my studio, works great. I am concerned about keeping the knobs in sync with the DAW state, which is the whole point of rotary encoders.

Here's my example:
Set knob to control something simple, like filter cutoff. Move the knob to 75%, the filter in the DAW gets set to 75%. Change the filter in the DAW to 25%, the hardware current value and DAW value are now out of sync. If i now move the knob again, the DAW value predictably jumps to 75% if the mode is set to jump, or does nothing until the knob gets turned past 25%.  What I would like to have happen is transmit the DAW value back to the keyboard, so it knows the current value is 25%, and the resume transmitting that value. My expectation was that I could just send the same midi CC command back on the same channel, and it would just work, but no luck. That is at least how many other controllers on the market work.

LBH

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 10:08:58 pm »
Here's my example:
Set knob to control something simple, like filter cutoff. Move the knob to 75%, the filter in the DAW gets set to 75%. Change the filter in the DAW to 25%, the hardware current value and DAW value are now out of sync. If i now move the knob again, the DAW value predictably jumps to 75% if the mode is set to jump, or does nothing until the knob gets turned past 25%.  What I would like to have happen is transmit the DAW value back to the keyboard, so it knows the current value is 25%, and the resume transmitting that value.
The value is clearly transmitted to the controller.
The jump and pickup you describe is how i understand them to work.

But you have Absolute and Relative options for knobs/ endless encoders. Have you tried those? I can't find informations in the manual about what those settings means. What happens on the different settings?
Also the controls has limits, and may have an impact on the functionality if you make a setting in your DAW that's outside that limits.

This settings is what you have in Keylab Essential i believe.

cboshuizen

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 12:50:45 am »
Small update: I switched over to Ableton live, and in fact, things work as I would expect - the controller and knob are always in sync. However in FL studio, I cannot get things to work, as I have been describing.

LBH

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2019, 01:37:10 am »
Good. So what i wrote in my first post was correct?
So i would believe your Arturia controller recieve data. It's more a question if your applications - like your DAW - send the data

Perhaps FL Studio need to be enabled to send the data?

cboshuizen

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2019, 02:11:21 am »
No luck =( I goofed around with the FL midi out module, and it doesn't seem to send any values to the knobs. It is working though, because I can blink the transport control lights by sending note data over the right port, so it definitely picks up something. Just not controller values.

I also tried messing with relative values, but it doesn't work either. I can make it either increment, or decrement, but never both.

I also tested Studio One, and the built-in knobs work fine when the keyboard is set to the built-in "DAW" preset - but don't increment when set to any other Map preset. Getting tired...

LBH

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2019, 05:33:56 pm »
I use Studio One 3.
And i have a Novation SL MKII controller.
When i use my controller in normal midi mode, then my controllers Pickup function and the value transmitting does'nt work.
But when i use my controller in automap mode, then both works.
If im using Automap MIDI to control plug-ins, then i have to map the control for control link to get it to work. When using normal MIDI Learn then it does'nt work.

I actually don't think Studio One support Pickup functions. But apparantly there are ways to deal with this as things work when using Novation automap.

And apparantly DAWs also can do something as you say it work in Ableton Live. I also think it work in Cubase, but i'm not sure.

I have no idea what's going on. I would like much more informations about this.
It could look like things does'nt work unless you assign a control using avaible automation parameters or something like that. If so, then it look like my wish to have Arturias controllers to do so is even more useful than i thought. I wish Arturias controllers had something like Novation Automap but just better so you can organize pages and select those pages in a list. And better explained.

And you have seen a difference when you use your controller in DAW mode or not.

It would be nice if Arturia and other controller, DAW  and other software manufactors could explain all this. Perhaps in an articles, tutorials and manuals. More information is needed.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 05:40:57 pm by LBH »

cboshuizen

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 05:03:07 am »
Thanks, I agree, some more documentation would help. I appreciate all your help here too, I wish someone from Arturia would chime in!

musigui

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Re: Can I send controller values back to the keyboard (eg, knobs)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 01:59:08 pm »
I'm having a similar issue with Analog Lab and using a non-Arturia controller - I want the parameter settings to remain in-sync with my (non-Arturia) controller whether the values are changed on the computer or on the controller, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do this in Analog Lab.  A pity as I was hoping to use Analog Lab live, but looks like I will be forced to use MainStage or a DAW (but not FL studio!)

mg

 

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