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Author Topic: Randomize per step  (Read 215 times)

VAU

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Randomize per step
« on: April 03, 2019, 06:12:34 pm »
a randomize per step possibility would be great. When activated, it would let you set positive, negative or both values.  Per step.  That would be sooo useful !

LBH

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 07:40:22 pm »
You actually allready have some possibilities.
I attach a example preset of something that's allready possible. Only 4 steps in a 16 step sequence is plus-minus. All other steps is randomized within a fixed set octave for each step. Perhaps you can find ways to do, what you wan't.

Please read the presets Comments. The preset has the bank name "LBH Examples".

How many settings do you wan't for each step in the sequencer? There are also a request for limits for randomizing. Should that also be pr step then? Look like a lot of parameters for a relative small thing it look like. There are for example also a request to have the sequencer steps availble as triggers and other useful requests.
Why would your feature request be so useful for a randomized sequence?  I assume you can modulate pitch in other ways to get more control, if that's what you wan't. But perhaps i'm missing something?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 07:43:29 pm by LBH »

VAU

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 06:04:18 pm »
i checked your example, thank you, but it is something different

the advantage of RANDOMIZE PER STEP is of course, that you get variations that make much more sense in song context,
#especially, if there was a quantize or harmonize function at least for pitch randomizing. a bassline stays the same, only 2 notes get harmonized variations for example.

If individual randomizing was activated, then i would find it perfect if you could slide upwards from ZERO for positive randomizing
and downwards from ZERO for negative ones.  by this you also get the choice of unipolar or bipolar randomizing.

LBH

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2019, 10:44:54 pm »
Hi WAU,

FYI:
Pitch can b Quantized, and it is in the example preset.
For example LFOs can work both in bipolar and unipolar mode.
Modulations can be set to both negative and posive values.


Please tell me what's the difference for example in having Random down pitch on a step an octave down from one base note and having random pitch up from a base note that's one octave deeper?

I do understand you wan't a Direction parameter for each step. Then i would say a Limit/ Range parameter is needed to control the range for the random notes and Octaves. Right? I just set diferent fixed Octave for each step for this in my example, or use a modulation amount for the Pitch modulation. This could be done using multiple LFOs.

What you suggest and having a Limit/ Range parameter require 2 parameters x 2 sequencer lines x 32 steps = 128 parameters. Correct?
(Keep in mind that a Direction Parameter would tell the random notes would be chosen in Ranges up, down or both from the played base note on the step. A Range parameter is to me important and very useful even if it's only for each Sequencer line. And having a Direction parameter for Lines would also be great. Unless it's easy, then i'm not sure if it's worth it for each step.)
My Preset example does show ways to do something similar, even if it's not as easy and perhaps not as tight and stable. But perhaps it's actually enough - at least here and now. It is something that can be done now, and that was a point with my post.
What have you actually tried, to do what you wan't? Have you tried to use 3 LFOs?

I attach a rather quick example using 3 LFOs to modulate Chromatic Quantized Pitch. Functions is as in my previous example used as sidecahins to handle which LFO is setting the pitch. Again please read the Comments in the Presets Comments field. I'm not sure you have done this with the first. The presets Bank name is again LBH Examples.
You can set the Octaves and notes in the Sequncer to excactly the same value if you wish. Exsperiment with the LFOs modulation amount for the pitch.

VAU

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 12:18:13 am »
sorry if i still struggle to understand those 3 points in your explanation:

- what do octaves have to do with it?
- how do you only randomize a certain number of notes within lets say a bassline?
- a selection from a certain scale, lets say the Chromatic one, is something different than a harmonized quantization,
wich means, the bassline ia in C Maj with the "fitting " random notes, then it gets transposed to A min with the fitting random notes etc etc
Isn't that correct?

and no, it would not take additional sequencer lines, i tried to illustrate it ("great" graphic skills i know ...:)  )
see attached picture


ps the same way ratcheting could easily be implemented
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 01:03:05 am by VAU »

LBH

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2019, 03:07:08 am »
About octaves and quantizing:

In the Sequencer:
If you set a fixed Octave and does'nt randomize the Octave line but do randomize the Pitch line, then you actually keep the randomizing within a single Octave for each individual step. So in this case you can say the fixed Octave is setting a limit/ range for the note randomizing to be within one octave.
If you at the same time have selected a scale in the sequencers Pitch line, then you keep the Randomizing within that scale. In my first preset Example i had Blues chosen to show that possibility. Please read the manuals section "9.3.1.2. The Scale menu".


When modulating Pitch for a Engine module:
You have 2 buttons for quantize in a module. A "Q" and a "Pen" button.
The Q button Quantize.
The Pen button give you the option to pick the notes you wan't the quantize to function for. In my first example i have picked the notes that fit a Blues scale and to fit the scale i had chosen in the sequencer as the resulting sound make use of both.
I had done that to show this functionality.
But there is a but, as the Engine Pitch Quantized notes is relative to the played note.
In your first post you said you wanted to use random notes in different directions. And that both my examples does.

In my second example i have picked all 12 notes, so it's chromatic quantizing. That to make it clear, that the Engine Pitch modulation actually was quantized. In this second example i have only used Octave settings in the sequencer trying to seperate the 3 LFOs modulation to make the modulations up, down and both as audioble clear as possible.

For quantizing this means, that if you for example pick the notes that make a Major scale in the "keyboard" that show when you use the Pen button, then you Quantize to a Major Scale. If you pick the notes for a Minor scale, then you Quantize to a Minor scale. If you only pick the first note, then you quantize to Octaves and so on. You can pick any notes you wan't and then the Quantize only quantize to the notes you pick. As it's as said allways is relative to the played note, then you keep the same scale precisely, if you only use a single root note, but that root note could be in different octaves.

However - if you for example pick the notes that fit a Blues Scale in the Engine Pitch Modulation and only use that for a sequence, then if you in a C scale play the Bass notes C, F and G, then you actually get a Blues scale that fit each of those root notes. That would be the case for my second example if you pick the quantize notes for a Blues scale like i used in my first example.
Please read section "5.1.4.2. Quantize Mod" in the manual.

PLease read more in the manual too, and exsperiment your self. Pigments has lots of possibilities using the trigger, sidechain and modulation options and so on.
It's impossible to cover everything as you can mix things in so many ways using your creativity.


Keep in mind that even with your Direction suggestions for the sequencer you will not be able to make different root notes to only be quantized to the excact same specific notes like in example the specific notes C, D and E. That will require a way to command the sequencer to play those notes only no matter which root note is played, and i would like such an option. The way it is now is normal.
If you in example will use the same notes in a Quantize when you play different notes, then you can't unless you pick a chromatic scale, as each played note will be a new root note for a picked scale. If you keep the same root note (Even in Octaves), then the scales notes will not change, and thus you only use certain notes that match the selected scale.

However - don't forget you have the Arpeggiator. That can play Random notes based on the excact notes/ chords you play.

And if you wan't to change scales for different root notes in a sequence, then you can create multiple presets. Just use an instance and a preset for each root note. That can be done Live if you have the tools and skills for that i think, but you can also use a DAW to make a full sequence using multiple tracks.


It all just give you some possiblities, that you have now. And with a little knowleadge music theory about scales, then you perhaps can add to this allready. Who knows what Arturia will do?


About your PS/ Edit i've just seen.
I have not said anything about new sequencer lines. I have said new parameters. And yes you could do something like you have drawn somehow. That's quite elegant if you could select the mode using a computer keyboard key to distinct between the note and the range. But it's still new parameters. And is'nt that actually the same as a limit/ Range setting only like suggested elsewhere in the forum, only for each step, like i have tried to explain from my first post?
Also i'm not sure you can have 2 or more layers to work like this in the code Arturia use.

What i have said about lines is, that this parameters will have to be added to each line in the sequencer. In you case for the Pitch and Octave line for a total of 64 parameters like you draw.
And for others they would also like ranges/ limits for all the other lines. Should that also be for each step? Then that will add 32 parameters more pr step. Should that also include a randomize percentage amount for each step? That would add 32 parameters for each line in the sequencer too.
And i would like to be able to set the ranges for full lines with one parameter too.


But let's see what Arturia will do. As said, then i'm just saying that you allready have lots of possibilities to use now.

LBH

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2019, 08:02:02 pm »
If the sequencer will get a limit/ range feature no matter it's for lines or steps (Steps would give better control and options), then i would like to set the range in semitones, so one does'nt have to set range for the octave line. That will reduce the number of parameters, and it will be better if you in example wan't to cover 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73, 85, 97, 109 and 121 semitones.
It's a little annoying for the random feature, that the semitone line only cover 12 notes, so you can't get a full octave from in example Root note to Root note 1 Octave apart (13 semitones). As it is now this involves using the Octave parameter.

It would also be great to add a Quantize option for the sequencer like the one for the Engines, so one could pick certain notes/ intervals.

VAU

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 04:05:28 am »
you were right of course about the scales ... my bad !

other than we threw in a lot of ideas here... maybe Arturia can include it.
i still think,  to exclude certain notes from randomization makes so much more sense musically.

we will see!

cheers

LBH

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Re: Randomize per step
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 01:14:03 pm »
i still think,  to exclude certain notes from randomization makes so much more sense musically.
Yes .
And that's what this per step suggestion, and the allredy excisting and by Arturia noted suggestion to get Limits/ Ranges for Randomization is about.

At least you have some possibilities about the directions you asked for.

Cheers

 

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