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Author Topic: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching  (Read 1184 times)

illywhacker

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Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« on: December 17, 2018, 12:25:20 pm »
I'm copying and pasting my message that I wrote on the Arturia Facebook page. They asked me to post it here. I love the synth, but if this issue can't be resolved, I can't see myself buying it. I've not really noticed any of my V6 collection synths having this issue... anyway, original post below:

Am I the only one that’s noticing digital stepping or artefacts when sweeping through the filter frequency range?

Literally, load up an initial preset, hold down a note with the sawtooth wave and click and drag the filter up and down. It’s most noticeable on the ‘Surgeon’ filter, but definitely noticeable on all filter types. It even does it when I draw in smooth automation lines in Bitwig Studio 2 for Filter Frequency. I can hear clear artefacts of some sort. It even does this when using the midi controls on my Keylab controller to control Filter Freq. I’ve not seen anyone else mention this.

I love the synth, it sounds great, but unless this can be fixed with an update, I can’t really see myself buying it. Is anyone else experiencing this?

MajorFubar

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 01:08:42 pm »
You're the second person to start a thread about this:

https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93822.msg153102#msg153102

...so clearly it's not just an isolated issue. But it doesn't seem to happen for all of us, me for a start. What computers are you using? Maybe some common denominator can be found which will help Arturia identify a fix.
2011 iMac 27" • 2013 MBP 13" • V Collection 6 • Analog Lab 4 • KeyLab 88 • KeyLab 49 • KeyStep

ben arturia

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 01:16:47 pm »
Hi illywhacker,

We will need more info to reproduce your issue.
Are you running Pigments on Mac or PC ?
Do you have this by mouse drag or when using automations in DAW ?
If in a DAW what is the DAW you're using ?

thanks
.......testing.......

illywhacker

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 03:21:32 pm »
Thanks for your quick responses guys, I'll get the technical info over to you a little later today, super busy right now.

In both instances though, I'm running Mac OSX.

10.11 on my Macbook Pro.

10.10 on my studio computer.

Using Bitwig Studio 2 as my DAW. Though the artefacts can still be heard when using Pigments in standalone mode.

More later :)


holografique

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2018, 10:51:17 pm »
yea, I have not exhibited this issue either. I'm on PC, Windows 7 64-bit, (2) Apollo 16s via ASIO, both standalone and with Nuendo (DAW). The only time I've exhibited any type of glitching is if either the ASIO buffer settings are too low, I trigger too many voices (CPU load), or the Unison voice clicking issue I reported on another thread. Otherwise, it's super-clean superb audio quality.

illywhacker

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 12:40:25 pm »
Ok so my studio computer specs are as follows, this is the computer I'm noticing the audio artefacts on the most:


OSX 10.10.4 - Yosemite

Processor - 4.3 Ghz Intel Core i7

Memory - 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3

Graphics - NVIDEO GeForce GTX 750 1023MB



My Macbook Pro doesn't display audio artefacts quite as badly, but they are still noticeable, Macbook Pro specs:


Macbook Pro Retina 2015

OSX 10.11.6 - El Capitan

Processor - 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7

Memory - 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

Graphics - Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB


Audio artefacts occur when dragging the Filter Freq with mouse, they occur with smooth, straight automation lines that I have draw in Bitwig 2 which is my DAW. The artefacts also can be heard when using my Arturia Keylab to control the Filter Freq. Hope this helps.



I'm jumping into the studio shortly, so I can record a WAV of the artefacts as I twist the filter frequency knob. I'll upload for your benefit.

Thanks :)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 12:42:17 pm by illywhacker »

illywhacker

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 01:26:29 pm »
Sorry for the delay!

Here is a recorded audio clip that I have uploaded to my Google Drive of the 'DEFAULT' patch on Pigmients, on my studio computer running OSX 10.10. in Bitwig 2. I notice the same issues on my Macbook Pro 2015 running OSX 10.11, but they aren't quite as bad on the newer version of OSX compared to OSX 10.10 on my studio computer.

I recorded realtime mouse dragging movements. You can clearly hear some sort of digital stepping or artefacts. The same stepping can be heard when Bitwig's automation is controlling the filter cutoff. The stepping is even worse when controlling Pigments filter cutoff with my Arturia Keylab 61.

The ONLY time I can't hear any artefacts or digital stepping is when Pigments built in modulators (like the LFO) is controlling the filter frequency... Until this issue is addressed, I can't really see myself buying it, which is a shame because I really love using it other than this issue.

Studio Computer Specs that recording was made on:

OSX 10.10.4 - Yosemite

Processor - 4.3 Ghz Intel Core i7

Memory - 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3

Graphics - NVIDEO GeForce GTX 750 1023MB



Link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xu43m3MougEYsTWyEwoJ7vOOXfxdtxxR

LBH

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:44 pm »
Sorry for the delay!

Here is a recorded audio clip that I have uploaded to my Google Drive of the 'DEFAULT' patch on Pigmients, on my studio computer running OSX 10.10. in Bitwig 2. I notice the same issues on my Macbook Pro 2015 running OSX 10.11, but they aren't quite as bad on the newer version of OSX compared to OSX 10.10 on my studio computer.

I recorded realtime mouse dragging movements. You can clearly hear some sort of digital stepping or artefacts. The same stepping can be heard when Bitwig's automation is controlling the filter cutoff. The stepping is even worse when controlling Pigments filter cutoff with my Arturia Keylab 61.

The ONLY time I can't hear any artefacts or digital stepping is when Pigments built in modulators (like the LFO) is controlling the filter frequency... Until this issue is addressed, I can't really see myself buying it, which is a shame because I really love using it other than this issue.

Studio Computer Specs that recording was made on:

OSX 10.10.4 - Yosemite

Processor - 4.3 Ghz Intel Core i7

Memory - 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3

Graphics - NVIDEO GeForce GTX 750 1023MB



Link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xu43m3MougEYsTWyEwoJ7vOOXfxdtxxR
You did'nt respond to my suggestion to use a Macro to create a range for the Frequency. I have attached a test preset there.
https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93822.0#msg153169
I would apply a Macro and make the Frequency range shorter, if i need to change the Frequency in real time. More about this in the above link.

EDIT:Just tested again also using a Macro. I can confirm there are more or less stepping depending on the settings, when using my keyboard controls. Some smoothing would be good. EDIT END

« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 04:38:04 pm by LBH »

illywhacker

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 05:05:05 pm »
Sorry for the delay!

Here is a recorded audio clip that I have uploaded to my Google Drive of the 'DEFAULT' patch on Pigmients, on my studio computer running OSX 10.10. in Bitwig 2. I notice the same issues on my Macbook Pro 2015 running OSX 10.11, but they aren't quite as bad on the newer version of OSX compared to OSX 10.10 on my studio computer.

I recorded realtime mouse dragging movements. You can clearly hear some sort of digital stepping or artefacts. The same stepping can be heard when Bitwig's automation is controlling the filter cutoff. The stepping is even worse when controlling Pigments filter cutoff with my Arturia Keylab 61.

The ONLY time I can't hear any artefacts or digital stepping is when Pigments built in modulators (like the LFO) is controlling the filter frequency... Until this issue is addressed, I can't really see myself buying it, which is a shame because I really love using it other than this issue.

Studio Computer Specs that recording was made on:

OSX 10.10.4 - Yosemite

Processor - 4.3 Ghz Intel Core i7

Memory - 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3

Graphics - NVIDEO GeForce GTX 750 1023MB



Link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xu43m3MougEYsTWyEwoJ7vOOXfxdtxxR
You did'nt respond to my suggestion to use a Macro to create a range for the Frequency. I have attached a test preset there.
https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93822.0#msg153169
I would apply a Macro and make the Frequency range shorter, if i need to change the Frequency in real time. More about this in the above link.

EDIT:Just tested again also using a Macro. I can confirm there are more or less stepping depending on the settings, when using my keyboard controls. Some smoothing would be good. EDIT END




Sorry, I've been away and completely forgot to test that Macro method out. Anyway, just tried it, no luck, still sounds as bad. It definitely needs some smoothing! All my other V6 collection synths sound great on my system. If Arturia can fix this, I'll buy it, but I can't see it being fixed before the reduced price runs out which will then delay me purchasing it until I can try a demo later on!

Anyone know if there will be a fix for this?

Thanks for getting back to me, LBH! :)

Jpro600k

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 11:04:41 pm »
Hi,

FILTER1
You can check of glitch noise at Both KBD and Freq.
I have attached pgtx.


illywhacker

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 11:33:59 pm »
Hi,

FILTER1
You can check of glitch noise at Both KBD and Freq.
I have attached pgtx.


Hey Jpro600k,

I tried the PGTX you attached and I still get the same glitching when modulating the filter frequency with anything other than the built in modulators within Pigments.

So for example: if I use Pigments built in LFO to modulate the Filter 1 Frequency, I get no audible glitching or stepping, it sounds perfect.

I still get glitching if I use my mouse (or touchpad on my Macbook Pro), automation in Bitwig, or the midi knobs on my Keylab 61 to control the Filter Frequency.

Other than that, I don't really understand what it is that you wanted me to try? Can you explain further?

Thanks :)

Jpro600k

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2019, 11:46:28 pm »
I told the fact that I catched glitch noise. It is a file for that demonstration.
I confirmed that there was a problem.
It should be solved.

MajorFubar

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2019, 04:06:45 pm »
I know it doesn't help your cause, but it doesn't do that on my computer, the sweeps are very smooth, so for some reason it must vary from computer to computer.
Spec = 2011 3.4GHz iMac 27" with 10GB RAM running High Sierra.
2011 iMac 27" • 2013 MBP 13" • V Collection 6 • Analog Lab 4 • KeyLab 88 • KeyLab 49 • KeyStep

LBH

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 06:42:36 pm »
All my other V6 collection synths sound great on my system. If Arturia can fix this, I'll buy it, but I can't see it being fixed before the reduced price runs out which will then delay me purchasing it until I can try a demo later on!

Anyone know if there will be a fix for this?
Thanks for testing.

Arturias applications have variations in how smoothed the parameters are, when you control them manually with a controller. I would'nt mind, if Arturia had a look at this smoothing for all applications.
As examples: Modular V3, SEM V2, Prophet V3, CS-80 V3 and Jup-8 V3 has great smoothing, - while Mini V3, DX7 V and Matrix-12 V2 more or less is steppy like Pigments.
But if one for example use Modwheel controlled Lag generator for the Cutoff in Matrix 12 V2, then the stepping (quantizing?) can be smoothed out.
And Mini V3 has no stepping when for example using Modwheel to control Cutoff thru the Modulation Matrix.
I don't know if any of the original hardware synths had this stepping.

Only Arturia can tell, if they will make better parameter smoothing to eliminate audioble stepping when using a controller.
Perhaps it's just an oversight in some applications.
Perhaps it's a small thing to correct, so the smoothing in all applications can be as good, as the unique sound Arturias synths has.
To me the stepping, are not a cause not to have and use the applications, but it would absolutely be better, if there was no stepping at all in any applications, as it in some cases does matter.

If there is a solution or a workaround to handle the stepping in the cases where it matters, then i would like to know.

LBH

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Re: Filter issues - audio artefacts/digital stepping/glitching
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2019, 06:43:31 pm »
I know it doesn't help your cause, but it doesn't do that on my computer, the sweeps are very smooth, so for some reason it must vary from computer to computer.
Are you using a hardware controller to control the parameter?

 

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