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Author Topic: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?  (Read 428 times)

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« on: August 07, 2018, 05:42:18 pm »
I think this is the most appropriate section to pose this question. Mod’s, if you feel differently, please feel free to re-direct it to the most appropriate section:

Here’s my situation. I have a 16 note sequence in the ARP2600V and the same 16 note sequence in Modular V.
I have incorporated both of them as a Multi in AL3, panned one a bit to the left, and the other a bit to the right.

When I hit the note to trigger the sequence, they are out of sync with each other, even with “Midi-Sync” selected in both apps.

My question is: Does this feature only work in the DAW or is there a way to sync both of these in AL3 so that I can have both sequences locked in together so I can just play it from a preset in AL3?

If there is a way to post the preset here, I can do so in order to “let you in my head”.
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LBH

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 07:36:37 pm »
If you have 2 MIDI SYNC sequences, then they both shold be synced to a current common global sync speed. Each sequence should follow the clock using the sequence own MIDI sync resolution.
This should be true no matter you use 2 seperate standalone applications or a multi in AL.
Some of the AL factory Multi sequences use 2 MIDI synced sequences or Arps, so you can check them out.

My guess is your midi sync tempo settings is causing what you call out of sync. If you for example have a sequence set to 3 times tempo and another to 5 times tempo. They are actually in sync to the common MIDI clock, but not playing the same tempo.

In case you have done things correct, but the sync does'nt work, then there must be a bug somewhere.

Does it work with the correct settings?

BTW: You can attach files to a post in this forum. Click on "Attachments and other options" beneath the window where you write your text, and then scroll down to the option to choose a file.

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 07:58:09 pm »
I'll see if I can attach the AL3 Multi "Preset" tonite when I get home.
Thanks for the explanation.
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TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 05:22:32 am »
Here is the attached Multi preset.
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Vic-tor

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 08:47:50 am »
Hey,

I checked the preset you sent and the ARP sequencer had the clock set to Free. The switch has to be in the lower position for the MIDI sync to be active.
This made me realise there is no label near to this switch (not right!) I logged it as a bug, so that it can be fixed in a future update.
Victor

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 04:16:17 pm »
Thank you.
Did it, saved it, but the riff still plays out of sync with one another.
They should be playing in unison identically if sync'd up, shouldn't it?
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LBH

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 06:55:28 pm »
What's the MIDI sync tempo setting for each of the 2 presets?

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 07:40:10 pm »
What's the MIDI sync tempo setting for each of the 2 presets?

I don't remember, I'm at work right now, but the preset itself is in the above post.  You're welcome to tinker with it.
I created each preset in each V individually, then thought it'd sound cool to have both in a multi.  How to sync them never quite crossed my transom, so here we are.
I just want to be able to fire up AL3 either in standalone or in DAW & both riffs play in unison.
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LBH

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 07:56:00 pm »
Well i can't as the ARP preset was not MIDI SYNCED as you said.

What i can say is, that if you only have switched on the MIDI SYNC in ARP but not adjusted the tempo setting parameter, then Modular runs at twice the speed. The 2 sounds are in sync, but not playing the same tempo.
I think that setting can be used with this sequences, but if you wan't the sequences to play excactly at the same tempo and changing from note to note at the same time (UNISON), then you need to make sure the tempi setiings is the same for the 2 sequences, and they are'nt if you only have switched the MIDI SYNC on in ARP and nothing else.

Check it out when you are at home. I'm quite certain this is it. Please refer to my explanation in my first post in this thread.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:26:30 pm by LBH »

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 08:34:26 pm »
Thanks, I'll try that when I get home.
I was hoping that I could default them to 120BPM & adjust to the same knob on the KL49MKII.
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LBH

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 11:08:19 pm »
As you own the full applications, then you in generel can assign the tempo settings in your applications to a Macro in AL3. (The tempo parameters is only avaible when owning the full applications.)
(It can be tricky - if possible at all - doing this in free mode using sequences from different applications. But there should be no issues if the sequnces is created in the same application or if the tempo settings can be adjusted in the macro to match when changing tempo.)

In a DAW your MIDI SYNC sequences sync to the tempo set in the DAW.

For standalone you need to set a global tempo in another manor. I can use my keyboard to send out a global clock tempo. Please have a look at this topic: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=93087.0

Congratulation with your Keylab 49 MKII. I hope it's good. I don't know if it send out a global clock to use for standalone applications. I hope it does. A quick look in the manual say it can control DAW tempo, so perhaps it does'nt send global clock. That i think Arturia should add, if it can't. Can't Keylab 49 MKII  send out a global clock to use for standalone applications Arturia?
But your sequences adjust to a global clock. When no settings has been done when outside a DAW, then the tempo probably is 120 BPM, but i can't tell for certain.

However. No matter you are in a DAW or outside a DAW and wan't to MIDI SYNC, then your sequences adjust to the global tempo. And if a sequence is set to run twice the tempo, then it runs twice as fast as the global tempo and so on. Many of Modulars tempo synced presets are unfortunately running a sequence meant to be for an 4/4 beat as it's for example 8 or 16 steps but is set to run 3Xtempo. That make it very difficult to use. The sequence is probaably set to run 3xtempo because the delay does'nt create tempo synced triplets (Or other patterns like syncopated patterns), and i have created feature requsts for this and wished it for years.

You can think of it this way as an example:
1. The global clock is a tempo set by the conductor in an orchestra.
2. However different musicians/ instruments in the orchestra play notes of different values. That can be 2xtempo, 3xtempo (triplets), 2/tempo and so on. The musicians/ instruments playing is your different sequences. That's why you can and should be able to set the tempo for your sequences relative to the main clock. This is how MIDI SYNC works now. (There can be other things affecting tempo and note length in the applications.)
(So MIDI SYNC does'nt mean all notes have the same note length as you seem to think, as that would be very limiting creatively.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 11:39:56 pm by LBH »

TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 04:18:37 am »
Well, instantiated both models individually in a session at 120 bpm.
Now, they both play the riff in tempo.
Now to tie them globally to the controller for use in standalone.

Edit: This seems to be the best functionality, is to save from the DAW to the desired Tempo, then replay in AL3 in standalone at that temp. 
Can't really find a way to assign the temp to the #9 encoder in Global or User. 
I may have missed something, but this is working for the intended purpose, and I prefer to reproduce live according to the recorded tempo anyways, so I think this will work.

I can now use this as a methodology for creating sequences in various V's to align the tempo's for live use in AL3 after fixing their tempo in Pro Tools as a "go to" stock template.

Thanks for the tips guys!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 04:40:53 am by TonyFlyingSquirrel »
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TonyFlyingSquirrel

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Re: Sync tempo of 2 sequences in AL3 multi?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 07:53:27 pm »
And.....The finished result, attached...

Thanks again for the tips guys!f

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