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Author Topic: Concerned, want your honest advice.  (Read 1273 times)

Arturia Newb

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Concerned, want your honest advice.
« on: July 18, 2018, 10:32:55 pm »
I'm a bit overboard with VST synth plugins, having already purchased most of the big hitters, but I keep being attracted to these Arturia VST synths and have been considering taking the plunge.  I've watched a few reviews of the synths on Youtube, and they sound pretty good, and people seem to have some good things to say about them, it's basically all good I think.

My concern, however, is on the support side.  Support if there are problems is important to me, and I haven't heard anyone comment on how good Arturia's support is if there is trouble.  Also, I'm very concerned about upgrading pricing in general, and the reason I'm really posting is because I was doing google searches to see what Arturia's upgrading pricing was from their last "Collection" version to this one so I could get an idea of what it might be like in the future, and .. I'm even more concerned after reading here about that.

Was the upgrading pricing from even earlier versions as much as the upgraded pricing from their V Collection to their 6 Collection ?

It really does concern me.  To me, and maybe I've been naive about this, these VST synths are basically like hardware synths to me, at least that's how I think about them.  Besides the issue of the DAW vendors potentially cutting off support for earlier versions of VST (2.0 for example) or having them become obsolete because of operating system upgrades, I intend to purchase VST's that I can keep using for .. you know, at least a decade, to me it is a somewhat long term investment.  I know that older VST's were supported for a very long time, many of them, and a lot of people are still using synths that they purchased over a decade ago.

But to me these "upgrades" are kind of like firmware updates and should either be free, or close to free, maybe charging a little more if there are new features or new additions to the collection, and it does sound like there were _some_ additions to the new Arturia collection.  But ... 199 .. what is that, $us, or Euro, or ?  That seems really expensive for an upgrade to me on a collection that is 500$us to start with.

If another VST manufacturer tries to charge me that much for upgrades on their VST, I'm going to be a little ticked off about it ... so I'm trying to find out if this was just some weird one time event for Arturia, or if this is just the way they do business.

Honestly, the heavy handed disclaimer on the registration page for this forum even makes me suspicious of them ... you won't do this, or that, or thus-and-such ... like we aree five year old children or something.  I just don't like the vibe at all, it seems very arrogant and off putting.  And the few comments I've seen on this forum about the upgrade price has me really concerned.

I guess I just want to know if you all think it's worth if, if you'd go the Arturia route again if you had it to do over again.  I certainly don't _HAVE_ to purchase the plugins, I have plenty of software synths, but I wouldn't mind having them if the company is reasonable to deal with.

PaulsGotGAS

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Re: Concerned, want your honest advice.
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 06:32:03 am »
Well, I'm six months late with this reply, and I've only started using Arturia products in earnest over the past few months. I did buy the SparkLE when it first came out, and Spark Dubstep soon after. I thought they were great for the price, but I didn't do much with them. At that time I was more into guitar, etc. I sold the SparkLE at some point because I just wasn't using it.

But then I started working for one of the major music retailers in the U.S., and I had to learn all about Arturia's other products. I was pretty astonished by the V Collection and their hardware, which didn't exist (or I didn't notice) when I'd bought SparkLE earlier. Like you, I had spent thousands of dollars on the other guys - NI, Reason, U-he, Izotope, Sylenth and countless other soft synth products. The sad truth is that I had to do that to see which ones I'd really use. Even the most generous demo policy wasn't enough, because you couldn't really produce, save and build upon your results with demos. All of the other synths seemed more like guitar pedals to me. I'd pull them out and use them from time to time, but I never created a permanent "pedal board" or core platform with them. They were all too different, with their own quirks and such.

And at first I did the same thing when I returned to Arturia. I bought CMI V by itself because it appealed to me on its own merit. It was a great synth. Then I bought the Keylab MKII hardware which added Analog Lab 3 and Piano. At the time I didn't think I'd want to edit the other synths. But once I had Analog Lab 3 I realized I wanted to edit them all, heavily. So I bought the V Collection. I also bought SparkLE all over again.

The difference with Arturia for me is that everything is so well integrated. If you like the sounds of these particular synths, Arturia products can form the "core" of your studio. To me, Arturia products are much easier to use than NI or other platforms. So next I'll be getting a Keystep, Beatstep Pro, and the Filter and Pre-amp collections. Knowing what Keystep and Beatstep can do, I'll probably also add some hardware synths for the first time (have my eyes on MatrixBrute and Behringer Deepmind 12).

Now, I get things done almost entirely with Arturia products (using Reaper), and I'm much more productive. I'm glad I have the other soft synths lying around. But they are still like guitar pedals gathering dust in the closet until I pull one out to use for a specific purpose. NI and Reason just seem like nightmarish quagmires of proprietary bureaucracy and copy protection, to the point where I can no longer bear to use those products anymore. Of course, I have a particular fondness for the types of synths that Arturia models, so that helps.

So I've already overpaid - money for SparkLE, money for CMI, then money for Analog Lab 3 and Piano (via the Keylab Mk2 hardware), then more money for the V Collection (which includes CMI, AL3 and Piano), then more money for SparkLE yet again. I could probably resell the CMI license, and possibly the Analog Lab 3 and Piano licenses as well, since they are all covered under the V Collection license. But even if I don't I feel I'm getting my money's worth because, finally, I'm PRODUCTIVE with soft synths! In the end, that is what I was aiming for all along.

My only need for support came because I bought a returned Keylab Mk2 that the previous owner never de-registered. So I could not register it or authorize Analog Lab 3/Piano. I emailed Arturia, they requested photos of the relevant serial numbers, etc, and I was up and running quickly. That was definitely a good experience for me. I just had to allow that they were half a world away, so responses might take a day or two. Their online FAQ, manuals, help and documentation is very good. If you're willing to put in some due diligence rather than immediately contacting Arturia for each question you have, you'll probably find your answers quickly.

I must admit, I'm a little shocked by the idea of paying $199 to upgrade VC5 to VC6, when VC5 was already $500. Arturia's pricing overall is pretty good and fair - EXCEPT when you start upgrading, adding more Arturia products, and so on. They did offer me a discount on VC6 after I purchased CMI. When VC6 has 21 synths that each sell for around $149, it seems like a steal to pay $500 for all of them in one package. Would I have paid another $199 to get the new offerings in VC6? Yeah, I probably would. I would feel it's overpriced, but I would still do it, because I'm productive with their products. And, because I want to support a company that has provided me (finally) with what I NEED, versus only what I WANT.

Keep in mind that Arturia (I think) is not a gargantuan company. They are located in France and sell both hardware and software internationally in a saturated market which includes competition from talented teenagers who offer pretty nice free products from their parent's basement. Arturia is now offering an entire platform, not just a set of soft synth products. If I had not worked in music retail I might have been more upset by Arturia's pricing. But now I think I understand why their pricing is the way it is. They need to make money to remain in business, and that's not easy. One reason it is so difficult is because...

sales and tech support in the music gear industry is utterly bogged down by relentless pretentious and stupid questions, customers who are certifiably insane, scam artists, trolls, people who repeatedly buy and return products, and a host of other time and resource-wasting nuisances that make running a profitable music business very difficult. If Arturia has to deal with even a tiny fraction of the nonsense that I deal with at work, I'm honestly surprised they are still in business at the prices they charge today. No joke.

For example, we have one pathetic individual who calls us up almost daily (for at least 2 years now). All he does is chew on celery while flipping through a catalog and repeatedly asks, "Do you have [product] in stock? How about [another product]? Do you have [yet another product] in stock?". He has never once placed an order. If this clown calls the other major stores as well, he may have put in more than 2,000 hours with this foolishness over the past two years. Thanks to this one individual, several of our employees have less sales income to feed their families with. And there are HUNDREDS of these people out there who troll music businesses. Here are a few more COMMON calls we get:

"Yeah, does the Gibson Les Paul Custom that costs $6,000 come with 9 or 10-gauge strings? I don't want it if it comes with 9-gauge strings."

"Whassup dog? I'm a DJ and I need a dj controller, 8 top speakers, and 4 subwoofers. Can you ship those out to me now and I *promise* I'll pay for them later?").

"I can't get any sound out of this MIDI controller. No pianos, no organs, not synths, no drums. Nothing at all. I haven't even bothered plugging it into my computer yet because it doesn't do anything at all. What's the big idea selling me something that doesn't even work? What are you, some kind of scammer?"

"YOU [the music store] ruined my child's Christmas because UPS delivered it one day later than they originally estimated. I ordered it on December 23; it should have been here by Christmas. May YOU burn in hell. [click]".

"Thanks for taking a full hour to set up that package of gear for me. I really appreciate all your help. I'll call back and order it later [click]." (and the sales goes to another agent who did nothing to help this customer, if the sale ever happens at all).

You wanted my honest answer. Well, honestly, you probably have no idea what these people are subjected to each day. Every time some customer emails Arturia to ask "Does your DX7 synth software model the Yamaha DX7 synth, or does it model a Casio workstation?", some portion of the money you paid to Arturia gets flushed right down the toilet, and that is 5 minutes less that their tech support people have to devote to intelligent questions that are not already clearly answered on their website. Their prices rise accordingly.

From my perspective working in retail music sales, you and so many other musicians would pay far less for the products you purchase if you went after the lunatic fringe that makes it so difficult to run our business, rather than being too quick to jump on the companies' sales and tech support. They do the best they can, under circumstances that often make you question whether the human species is still viable.

I don't know if any of that helps. But I can say that having tried them all, I feel like I've found a comfortable and productive home with Arturia products. I'll still use other products, of course. But Arturia is becoming the core platform I use. So I for one am willing to help keep them afloat by paying the fairest prices I can afford, and doing some tech research on my own before bothering them with simple questions.

Disclaimer: My comments above are my own, not Arturia's. I am an Arturia customer only, and I do not work for them.

 

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