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Author Topic: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3  (Read 6195 times)

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 09:45:36 am »
Thank you LBH
Tonight I will go thought every suggestion that you have mentioned 1 by 1 and note down my findings in detail, then get back to you.
Thank you for your patience.
I do actually have a level of computer experience and have worked with them for many years, but please understand this is the first time I've used music software and I've never come across such an issue that is so hard to reslove tech wise, with a computer that should be very capable of dealing with this program.
I'll work on all your detials tonight and get back to you....
I have 1 more issue which I've not mentioned yet but I've had it with both my old laptop and now this new laptop, when playing Lab 3 or any other synth software live through an amplifier....I'm getting a loud  electric static noise from the laptop power cable. Once I unplug the power cable the noise stops. Is there is solution to this?

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2018, 01:36:47 pm »
I have 1 more issue which I've not mentioned yet but I've had it with both my old laptop and now this new laptop, when playing Lab 3 or any other synth software live through an amplifier....I'm getting a loud  electric static noise from the laptop power cable. Once I unplug the power cable the noise stops. Is there is solution to this?
This could be about the powersupply or the power cord. But i wonder why you have it on 2 computers. If your power supply and power cord is working correct and the powersupply has enough capacity and match your computers components, then things should work correct. I'm not a technician. I assume there can be other reasons like earth connection issues. I don't know if that's normal where you live.

If it's only an issue with your internal soundcard, then this might be an issue an external soundcard could solve, but you have to try it out, to find out. Perhaps  try to go to a music store that have soundcards, and try it out with your computer?

Cheers

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2018, 10:17:37 pm »
Hi LBH

I've gopne through all your questions and answered tham as best I can...
Hope it helps..


First of all. You really shouldn't have issues. Have you tried to turn down the volume on AL3 GUI itself (it's important it's this volume), when you have issues, just like i have suggested?
Yes, I have turned down the volume on the AL3 control panel/Essential 61 midi keyboard...no change
+
Also keep in mind, that presets names and details in general is vital to be able to check your issues.
Most piano sounds especially Grand Piano and especially "American Grey Road", some  CMI sounds i.e "Addictive Pad",  some Solina sounds i.e."Blue Strings" and most Matrix 12 sounds i.e. "Encounter Pad".  Interestingly the Jupiter 8 sounds seem okay last time ?
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Is the 16% CPU usage you mention, the usage you have, when you play and get issues? What is the usage of the CPU core that is used most?
Look in the cpu core graphs in Windows resource monitor: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-use-resource-monitor-windows-7 -  it's all windows - just scroll.
Yes I did...see results below
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How can you say AL3 have CPU issues if your informations about CPU usage is correct, and no individuel CPU core is overloaded?
I suggested that it was Cpu issue because the cpu level meter bottom right of the AL3 panel goes over 50% when I play a sound that then distorts and crackles...
After checking the Cpu monitor on the laptop while playing a sound that distorted Matrix 12  " Encounter Pad" the highest usage it went up to was 27% & Ram went to 21%

+

And again what is your CPU model name beside i7 and speed? I can't help unless you answer my questions. There is a reason why i ask.
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-2620M CPU @ 2.7 GHz + Installed Ram 8GB + Graphics Nvidia NVS 4200M
Sound: High Definition Audio Device and NVidia High Definition Audio

+

Turboboost is a feature in a processor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Turbo_Boost
I only asked if your 2.7 Ghz is the turboboost or base frequency of your CPU. I believe it's you base frequency, but i can't tell for sure unless i have the full name of the CPU. Intel have a product ark that have this info for each processor they have.
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When you load one standalone application of AL3 it doesn't matter that AL3 standalone is 32 bit and your OS is 64 bit.
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Set your computer's power for high performance like i already have suggested.
Okay, I did that but made no difference..
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Disable 'Windows Background Apps' like i already have suggested.
Select 'Settings' from the Windows Start menu, select 'Privacy', then select 'Background Apps'. From here switch 'Off' the apps that you do not believe you are using, or that you do not wish to run in the background when you are not using the program.
Yes did that

I have almost everything turned off.
It doesn't mean you can't use the applications, if you switch them off here, they are just not running in the background all the time.
I also suggest you go thru everything in the windows settings application and turn off as much as possible. Both for performance, security and privacy reasons.
Yes, I've done all that. Only turned off anti virus when wifi was off to see if it made any difference but it didn't
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Try to set your audio at 44.1 or 48 GHz. Have you run it at higher settings?
If you use Windows audio, then set the buffer as few miliseconds, where you don't have such long latency that you can't play well.
If you use ASIO4ALL then try to start at 512 samples and go down towards 256 samples is possible, and then 128 samples if possible. The lower the setting the more demading it is on your CPU.
Some soundcards is less demanding on the CPU than others.
Yes, did that but no change

+

If you actually are having latency issues after doing all the above, then try to run latencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
This can  perhaps help to find the source for eventuel latency issues. 
Not really having any latencey issues
Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 05:03:12 am by LBH

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2018, 01:07:08 am »
I have no issues with the 4 presets you name. For example Addictive pad can be very hard on the CPU.

First i need to ask what speakers you use? Do you use headphones? In any case are you sure you audio output and your speakers/ headphones is'nt damaged, and that they can handle this?

In generel that's much better informations you provide now, if it's correct informations. There is quite a difference from the 16% CPU usage you reported last time, to the values you report now.
You still don't tell the usage of a single CPU core. That's the important thing, if it's a CPU issue. A single core needs to be overloaded for this to be a CPU issue.
The usage you mention can perhaps overload a single CPU core depending on different things. But you need to check if that's the case.

Is this your CPU https://ark.intel.com/products/52231/Intel-Core-i7-2620M-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz ?
Do you know that's a CPU from first quarter of 2011? Todays CPUs does much more having the same clockspeed. I thought it was a new computer you had. Is'nt it? Which Windows 10 version and build do you use?
Have you checked if the CPU actually work at it's full speed? You can see the speed in windows task manager.
I have CPU in a laptop a generation after yours. I thought your CPU where better, but now if it's the one i post a link for, then i think mine is better.

If i was you, i would still try some external soundcards in a store like i suggested. We can't rule that out to be an issue. An external soundcard can perhaps help on the CPU load, but i can't tell, if it's enough. You'll have to try it to find out.
Also use some speakers/ headphones from the store to rule that out too.

There are some settings in the BIOS that if needed might help to optimize your CPU performance. But that you may need your computer gurus to look at. One needs to be careful with the BIOS. It also depend on which settings you have availble in your BIOS.

I still think you should be able to use your laptop for at least one instance of AL3. The fact that you wonder why JP8 now don't have issues suport this. Why do you think JP8 don't have issues now?
Keep in mind that real time audio production is one of the most demanding tasks for a CPU if not the most demanding. Everything on your computer shall work optimal. It's not like using a mediaplayer to play an audio file or listen to music from a website.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:53:27 am by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 10:22:27 am »
I have no issues with the 4 presets you name. For example Addictive pad can be very hard on the CPU.

First i need to ask what speakers you use? Do you use headphones? In any case are you sure you audio output and your speakers/ headphones is'nt damaged, and that they can handle this?
It is not the speakers nor volume issue. I've played the Lab3 through earphones, m-audio studio speakers, Carlsbro keybaord amp and even a 350 watt bass amp...made no difference[/i]

In generel that's much better informations you provide now, if it's correct informations. There is quite a difference from the 16% CPU usage you reported last time, to the values you report now.
You still don't tell the usage of a single CPU core. That's the important thing, if it's a CPU issue. A single core needs to be overloaded for this to be a CPU issue.
The usage you mention can perhaps overload a single CPU core depending on different things. But you need to check if that's the case.
How do I check this? It does state 2 cores on the Performance monitor

Is this your CPU https://ark.intel.com/products/52231/Intel-Core-i7-2620M-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz ?
Do you know that's a CPU from first quarter of 2011? Todays CPUs does much more having the same clockspeed. I thought it was a new computer you had. Is'nt it? Which Windows 10 version and build do you use? Not sure about the above..it is a 2nd generation Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-2620M CPU @ 2.7 GHz processor ...I bought a reconditioned laptop exceeding the minimum spec specified by Arturia, so thought it would be more than ample...obviously not.. Don't see how a different edition of Win 10 would make a difference? I've updated all aspects of the operating software and the latest version of Lab3
Have you checked if the CPU actually work at it's full speed? You can see the speed in windows task manager.
When idol it states on Task Manager...CPU 5% 2.15 GHZ. Insterestingly when I open Lab3 CPU peaks at 80% but then immediately drops back to normal. All other performance displays seem to be well within limits
I have CPU in a laptop a generation after yours. I thought your CPU where better, but now if it's the one i post a link for, then i think mine is better.

If i was you, i would still try some external soundcards in a store like i suggested. We can't rule that out to be an issue. An external soundcard can perhaps help on the CPU load, but i can't tell, if it's enough. You'll have to try it to find out.
Unfortunately this is not possible as I live in a very rural area and I'm not able to get to the city to check these out. Also not easy to do that with a laptop not bought from same store
Also use some speakers/ headphones from the store to rule that out too. 
No need as I've tried many difference audio speakers which made no difference

There are some settings in the BIOS that if needed might help to optimize your CPU performance. But that you may need your computer gurus to look at. One needs to be careful with the BIOS. It also depend on which settings you have availble in your BIOS.
  Surely Arturia software makers wouldn't role out new software that meant ordinary people like me, would then need to start digging into their bios and also deep into very advanced settings within their laptop just to get it to work?

I still think you should be able to use your laptop for at least one instance of AL3. The fact that you wonder why JP8 now don't have issues suport this. Why do you think JP8 don't have issues now?
Keep in mind that real time audio production is one of the most demanding tasks for a CPU if not the most demanding. Everything on your computer shall work optimal. It's not like using a mediaplayer to play an audio file or listen to music from a website.
Yeah... I'm dissapointed that after buying a fairly high spec laptop specifically to do this job (as my old laptop had exactly the same issue but was only a dual core 2.1 Ghz processor) that after all your help and my fiddiling around with lots of different settings, still wont fully play LAB3.v Shame as Arturia have given me a good offer on Collection V but no point if 30% of the sounds won't work and I cannot use the Multi function which is very important to me, for same reason.  Anyway I cannot use any Arturia sounds until I resolve the electrical static noise from my laptop when it's plugged in.  By unplugging my main PC that did help but still not enough to use live. I'm busy at present by will work on this again over the next few days...thanks as always for your help LBH. I might try to take a few screen photos and post them which might help
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 03:49:55 pm by retrophonics »

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 05:44:50 pm »
Please read reply #14 again. I wrote this: Look in the cpu core graphs in Windows resource monitor: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-use-resource-monitor-windows-7 -  it's all windows versions - just scroll. This is where you can see the load on each core. Your CPU will show core 0-3 because it's a multithreading CPU, if this feature is on.
Let's take this first.

Screeshots can in generel often help.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 05:52:27 pm by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2018, 10:04:17 am »
Please read reply #14 again. I wrote this: Look in the cpu core graphs in Windows resource monitor: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-use-resource-monitor-windows-7 -  it's all windows versions - just scroll. This is where you can see the load on each core. Your CPU will show core 0-3 because it's a multithreading CPU, if this feature is on.
Let's take this first.

Screeshots can in generel often help.
Ok, I've done as you asked in windows resource monitor and enclosed 2 photo.
1 photo shows the cpu reading on LAB3 when playing the sound stated below which distorted badly ..
I played the demanding sounds which had max distortion when played i.e. 2 x DX7 sounds played in Multi "Ambient Mood"
Seems my cpu cores are all well within happy limits, so maybe this is not a CPU issue after all?

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2018, 06:28:27 pm »
Your CPU cores is clearly not overloaded.
I wonder why your CPU meter on the AL3 GUI seems to be quite high, as it does'nt seem to reflect the low CPU usage read in windows resource manager and will have have this in mind, but i believe the AL3 meter turns read if it overload.
So it does'nt look like you have a CPU issue.

It can be about some PC settings, as i have suggested.
When you have the issue, it's consistent right? It's not a second or a short while only? Let an answer on this, and if you please could post a screenshot of the full audio settings panel in AL3, be the next steps.

As it look like it's not a CPU issue, then i can't say it's the performance of the soundcard, that's the issue either. Can't rule it out before another is tested though. It can also still be the quality of the soundcard. And it can be about all other audio units and connections.

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2018, 11:43:53 pm »
Your CPU cores is clearly not overloaded.
I wonder why your CPU meter on the AL3 GUI seems to be quite high, as it does'nt seem to reflect the low CPU usage read in windows resource manager and will have have this in mind, but i believe the AL3 meter turns read if it overload.
So it does'nt look like you have a CPU issue.

It can be about some PC settings, as i have suggested.
When you have the issue, it's consistent right? It's not a second or a short while only? Let an answer on this, and if you please could post a screenshot of the full audio settings panel in AL3, be the next steps.

The sound distortion lasts as long as I hold down the notes. If I play 1 note there is no distortion, if i play 2 notes together maybe a slight distortion. if I play 3 notes together, then the notes begin to distort...so the more notes I play at once the worse the distortion and especially if sounds have long release or long reverb. Photo below as requested

As it look like it's not a CPU issue, then i can't say it's the performance of the soundcard, that's the issue either. Can't rule it out before another is tested though. It can also still be the quality of the soundcard. And it can be about all other audio units and connections.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 11:46:40 pm by retrophonics »

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 01:32:41 am »
I don't have issues with the "Ambient mood" multi preset.

Are your sound device driver updated?
(Just in case: Try to use a 48000 Hz samplerate to see if that make any difference. It should'nt, but perhaps. Take a second to try.)

If you have done what you have said you have done, and your CPU usage is like you have shown, then you should'nt have any issues, if your computers soundcard work correct, as you also say your headphones, cables, speakers and headphones work correct and can handle this sound.
I assume your NVidia can't make any conflict, but you can try to disable that for a while, just to be certain.

The only way to rule soundcard issues out is to try another fully working soundcard like an external USB soundcard, and i would prefere to use a new headset and new cables for testing too. This i suggest as being the next step after trying the above. Right now your CPU seems to handle the load.

This testing can either rule out or confirm that being the issue.

One thing i still wonder about is why you only have issues with some presets, and why presets that have been giving issues once does'nt another time. That could be caused by damaged hardware and cables.
The fact that you say the distortion continue over long periods i think rule out, that it's about things that may use the CPU for a short while. But still be sure, that you have set the settings for your PC, as i have suggested in my posts.





« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:07:43 am by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 03:36:25 pm »
I don't have issues with the "Ambient mood" multi preset.

Are your sound device driver updated?
(Just in case: Try to use a 48000 Hz samplerate to see if that make any difference. It should'nt, but perhaps. Take a second to try.)
I'll check that out and yes my sound driver is up to date

If you have done what you have said you have done, and your CPU usage is like you have shown, then you should'nt have any issues, if your computers soundcard work correct, as you also say your headphones, cables, speakers and headphones work correct and can handle this sound.
I assume your NVidia can't make any conflict, but you can try to disable that for a while, just to be certain.
I will try that

The only way to rule soundcard issues out is to try another fully working soundcard like an external USB soundcard, and i would prefere to use a new headset and new cables for testing too. This i suggest as being the next step after trying the above. Right now your CPU seems to handle the load.

This testing can either rule out or confirm that being the issue.

One thing i still wonder about is why you only have issues with some presets, and why presets that have been giving issues once does'nt another time. That could be caused by damaged hardware and cables.
The fact that you say the distortion continue over long periods i think rule out, that it's about things that may use the CPU for a short while. But still be sure, that you have set the settings for your PC, as i have suggested in my posts.
I  think we can rule out hardware issues on the laptop and I'm experiencing the same issues on both my old laptop and the new more powerful laptop.
I'm also wondering if the distortion issues with playing some LAB3 patches and the electrical static noise coming from the charging cable when charging the laptop are related?  Maybe this is a sound card issue and that having the correct external sound card would resolve both problems?
We have rulled out cpu, Ram, performance and memory, so all that is left is sound card and the possiblity that I'm overloading the basic built in sound card and it' s too basic to cope with such demanding complex sounds and interference from the charging cable?
What I'm going to do now do some research online and ask a few questions on external sounds and the possiblity of them resolving my 2 sound issues....
So it may be a few days before I'm back to you with more info...
I'm happy to buy an external sound card but I need to know what is best and abviously not too expensivre, just in case it doesnt resolve these issues
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:39:01 pm by retrophonics »

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 05:49:52 pm »
I would have the power cord connected.

Yes as said, then i among other things would try an external soundcard. But i can't say if that help. You should get better sound when playing though.
I have no sound distortion issue using my cheap internal realtek soundcard on my laptop. But there are differences between PC components.
You just need a entry soundcard, if you plan to buy one. Cards around 150-200  or $200-300 perhaps. Just not too cheap. It's a good idea to look around yes. If you can try one or some out before buying, then i would do that.


« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:00:49 pm by LBH »

AndyRH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 07:24:54 pm »
As I mentioned in a previous reply in this thread, Focusrite do fairly cheap external soundcards/audio interfaces, and I've found the ones I've used are very good quality.
There are many other companies that make similar products - shop around to see what's out there.

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 09:48:14 am »
As I mentioned in a previous reply in this thread, Focusrite do fairly cheap external soundcards/audio interfaces, and I've found the ones I've used are very good quality.
There are many other companies that make similar products - shop around to see what's out there.
Thanks AndyRH, will do..

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 03:32:19 pm »
After reading yours and others advice, it seems that I do require an audio interface which could resolve my issues and seems to be required when playing soft synths through laptops etc. So I'm looking at the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen as a possible suitable unit.
However I was just thinking of 1 other possible reason for my 2 sound issues...
Could my sound problems be related to the fact that I'm presently taking my sound output direct from the head phones output on the laptop? Could this be why some of my Lab 3 sounds distort and causing the annoying crackling/static noise when laptop is charging while playing Lab3 ?
I noticed on the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen, it comes with 2 outputs to go to external monitors or speakers and a separate headphones output. 

 

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