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Author Topic: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3  (Read 1461 times)

retrophonics

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Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« on: April 24, 2018, 09:44:42 am »
Just recently installed A Lab 3 and I'm having issues when playing many of the Jupiter 8 patches.
Starting off everything is fine but after a while when going back through various patches sometimes when I come to a JP8 sound it sounds different than before, screechy just like the "cross modulation" control has been badly adjusted?
Same applies sometimes when editing the basic controls of the JP8.
When I edit a JP8 sound and save it, then return again to play that sound, the "cross mod" is all over the place and despite trying to manually adjust it, I still can't rectify it.
Also occasionally the programme crashes when trying to work on JP8 sounds.
Sadly now I can't use JP8 for live performance, as I can't trust the saved sounds to play correctly when I dial them up.
I've re-installed Lab 3 and still no change.
My system is .... Windows 10, i core 7 intel processor, 8mb ram on a laptop and playing on a new Arturia Essential Key lab 61

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 01:48:39 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

Is there a way to easily replicate this issue?
Are you having the issue with AL3 both in standalone mode and when used as a plugin?
Are your AL3 updated?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 01:59:30 pm by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 07:41:38 pm »
Thanks LBH,
By continuing to work with JP 8 sounds, the issue soons appears each time.
I had downloaded the latest version of A Lab 3 and even did a reinstall but still have the issue.
I'm only using as a stand alone mode at present but I do intend to use as a plugin in Alelton Live Lite

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 09:00:40 pm »
I can say i have exsperienced AL3 crashes on my laptop. But i have'nt noticed if it's about Jup-8. I can be about soemthing i do to. But apart from that i don't think i can confirm  or deny your issues.
I mostly use the individual applications.

How have you reinstalled AL3?

Are you touching or doing anything when you change preset?

Are you only having issues when it's not factory presets?

It's hard for Arturia to correct things they can't reproduce the behavior. The more excact steps to reproduce - the better, if they don't know about it allready.
It could also make the chances for anyone to be able to help easier.

Can anyone else in the community confirm this issue?

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 09:46:28 am »
Yes, did a reinstall and that made no difference.
Spent all last night playing with it and came across a few more issues...
Strangley the JP8 sounds worked okay this time round but the first sound I used  CS 80  "4 Strings" after playing just a couple of notes the sound started hissing and going off key? I left the sound and went onto other sounds which were fine, then came back to it and same problem again?
I then worked for 3 hours without issues until I came to playing 2 sounds which I had saved in Multi Mode and layered...a grand piano and a OBX strings, then my CPU went off the scale and the sound was unplayble due to distortion/crackling...
I specifically bought a laptop with an intel core i7 processor 2.7 ghz and got 8 mb ram to play Arturia Lab 3, which is over recomended spec, so why is my cpu going off the charts playing in Multi Mode and also some other individual Lab 3 sounds?
I have nothing else on my laptop, just Arturia Lab 3, Arturia software center and Arturia Midi control...
I'm getting really upset with all this now as I had bought the Arturia Key Lab Essential keyboard, installed A Lab 3 and bought a laptop to meet the spec and I'm having so many issues..... I had intended in upgrading to Collection V but no point if I'm having so many issues with the simple version..... Any help would be greatly appreciated... thank you

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 03:14:43 pm »
Yes, did a reinstall and that made no difference.
I asked how you reinstalled. Did you only run the installer again, or what did you do? But perhaps your issue actually is about latency. It's clearly not about Jup-8 after all.

I used  CS 80  "4 Strings" after playing just a couple of notes the sound started hissing and going off key?
This should only happen if you modulate this "Four Strings" sound. For examle by using the wheels or other controls. Are you sure the wheels is in neutral position, and you don't use any controls?

I then worked for 3 hours without issues until I came to playing 2 sounds which I had saved in Multi Mode and layered...a grand piano and a OBX strings, then my CPU went off the scale and the sound was unplayble due to distortion/crackling...
Yes this can be caused by latency issues. Could be overload of a single CPU core. Such a sound can use a lot of CPU depending on different things.
How is your soundcard settings?
Samlperate? Buffer size? USB buffer size if you have such a setting?
Which soundcard do you use? What driver?

I specifically bought a laptop with an intel core i7 processor 2.7 ghz and got 8 mb ram to play Arturia Lab 3, which is over recomended spec, so why is my cpu going off the charts playing in Multi Mode and also some other individual Lab 3 sounds?
Minimum specs is not able to run demanding stuff - especially using more applications than 1. Depending on what you do, then a 2.7 GHz CPU is'nt a whole lot. You can do much, but not all. Tower computers perform better than laptops.
FYI: Working a long time can create heat. The warmer your computer is, the slower it get, and laptops can have a hard time keeping cool.

The CPU usage depend on your soundcard settings, how many applications you run, how the CPU load is being distributed, the sounds you use and how many notes you play at a time including held notes by sustain pedal, the effects you use, and technical stuff you can't do anythng about like software coding. Can you be detailed on how much you use, when you get crackles?

If you use Windows PC - then have you set it to "High Performance" mode?
Have you set the used USB connections not to shut down to save power?
Have you shut down as many things as possible that run in the background on your computer, that don't need to run all the time?

BTW: Keep in mind, that some sounds might be distorted because they are too loud. Then you can try to turn down the sounds volume.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 03:33:41 pm by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 04:01:31 pm »
Thank LBH for your time and detailed reply, it's much appreciated.

Looks like my issue may be with the sound card or not as the case may be.
My laptop only uses a basic Windows sound and does not have a dedicated sound card, so that may cause some issues...I had not thought of that when purchasing the laptop, as it was not stated on the recomend A Lab 3 spec.
+
You mentioned the CPU struggling when it gets hot, this makes sense and may also be an issue as that may have been the case last night when working on sounds that worked at the start but struggled later after a few hours work.

I have no other back ground programmes running, so that's not an issue.
+
I just reinstalled by opening the installer programme again and re-running it
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Don't have too many problems with latency
+
I'm using a laptop as I want to play live gigs using the LAB3, so desk top PC not feasible
+
Looking more and more like my laptop despite being more than the Arturia recomended spec, is still not powerful to run Lab 3 fully. This a major dissapointment as I bought it + Arturia Key Lab Essential 61 midi keyboard + Lab3,  going on what spec was recomened and even went higher than recomended. So looking like there is no point in investing in Arturia Collection V if I'm struggling to play all of Lab 3..
That's very dissapointing after all I've spent and hoped to achieve using Arturia....

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 08:01:58 pm »
Looking more and more like my laptop despite being more than the Arturia recomended spec, is still not powerful to run Lab 3 fully.
That's very dissapointing after all I've spent and hoped to achieve using Arturia....
Don't draw to fast conclusions.
If everything could be done on smaller computers, then studios and other users did'nt need more.
It's the same for all equiptment. And it's the same for all software.
Minimum specs is to exspect to be able to run one application, and perhaps more depending on the usage. I agree all vendors could make better recommendations, but that don't say the minimum spec is wrong. It's about what's possible to do with those specs.
I have a main music tower computer i use for the heavy stuff.
But i also have an older laptop with a i7 - 2.3 GHz base frequency CPU that can do quite much. But if it work hard, then it get hot, and then it can crash too.
Is your CPUs 2.7 GHz it's base frequency or a turboboost speed? Which CPU is it?

I have no other back ground programmes running, so that's not an issue.
Have you for example disabled any settings in Windows settings?

Looks like my issue may be with the sound card or not as the case may be.
My laptop only uses a basic Windows sound and does not have a dedicated sound card, so that may cause some issues...I had not thought of that when purchasing the laptop, as it was not stated on the recomend A Lab 3 spec.
You can also set a windows soundcard settings. It's not the best soundcard to use, but perhaps enough. You can also try to download and use ASIO4ALL driver for windows: http://www.asio4all.org/
Here is some info you might find useful and help with understanding:
https://support.image-line.com/action/knowledgebase?ans=214
https://support.image-line.com/action/knowledgebase?id=55&ans=62

For some usages a better soundcard is to perfere.

Don't have too many problems with latency
Overload of CPU is in a way latency issues.  It's not that you have too long latency, but perhaps too small, so your CPU can handle it. Also the higher soundquality you use the more power you need.

Also check in windows ressource monitor if the load is distributed to more cores than one.

I suggest you try the things step by step. Then it's much more likely to get a positive result you can use.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 08:57:09 pm by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 04:04:03 pm »
Thanks again LBH, you have been most helpful...
I am very new to this sort of thing but I'm learning all the time.
I will try out all your good suggestions over the coming days and let you know how I get on.

As I've just discovered that you can get an external sound card for the laptop (audio interface?). Would you think that might resolve many of my issues and enable me to install an asio driver, which these heavy synth software programmes seem to need?
If so, what would you recommend for my laptop?
You asked what was the power of my i7 processor ...it is 2.7 ghz.
Once again thank you for all your help and I'm learning more and more about this subect every day.
I would really like to fully run A Collection V on my laptop for playing live as I'm in a 80s band and the synths would give me a very authentic, so maybe with a new external sound card that might be achievable?
Cheers

AndyRH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 05:44:47 pm »
There are many external Audio/MIDI interfaces out there on the market. Arturia have one available, but I must admit being a fan of Focusrite - https://uk.focusrite.com/home?rd=1
They have a number of products that could be suitable for your needs.

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 06:47:55 pm »
@retrophonics

I asked which CPU and if the 2.7 GHz was base or turboboost speed? Which model is the CPU not only i7 but the full name? If the 2.7 GHz is turboboost, then the base frequency is less. Running turbo produce more heat. Heat can in live situations create a unstable system, especialy as there often are other heat sources like light, other equiptment and many people.
Wna't you can do live depend on so many factors. You'll have to try it out.

It's the same with soundcards. What you need depend on how you connect to the monitoring and PA and such, and what that gear can do.
Also an external soundcard does'nt have to be better than an internal.
I really can't explain it much better than it's done in the articles i posted a link for. Please read the articles.
The fact is, that you usually will find good and bad informations about all soundcards. Some are fans of products others say is'nt good, and the other way around. You'll have to find out what you need.

Practising with a band can perhaps give you a much better clue about, how much you can exspect to be able to do live, with the gear you have.

In generel - you'll learn. Some studying and testing most be exspected.

Have you checked if your issue was about the CPU being overloaded?

In generel it will be great, if you report, what you find out. That can help others.

BTW: When you do a reinstall of Arturias products, then it's often needed to uninstall the product, and then remove some files manually before installing the product again. That's why i asked about what you did. Looks like you did'nt do this. You'll find more info about uninstalling on the FQA site.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 06:53:01 pm by LBH »

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2018, 03:02:12 pm »
Ok, I'm going to uninstall and then re-install the new Lab 3 just released..
Computure ghurus which I spoken to tell me my laptop should be more than capable to playing Lab 3 and Collection V but somewhere there is an issue which I've not sorted yet...
+
Not sure if this is the cause of my cpu overloading..but on checking my version of Lab 3 previoulsy installed , it's down as the 32 bit version but my laptop on Windows 10 is 64 bit... How do I install Lab 3  64 bit? I did not see this option when installing the first time round?

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2018, 05:24:14 pm »
Yes it's about finding out what causing your issue. That's why you need to test each thing one by one.
I have suggested some things to check and try and how to do it.

The standalone version of AL3 is only 32-Bit. The plug-ins is also availble as 64-bit, and is instaled on your system, unless you have chosen not to during the install.

retrophonics

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Re: Sound issue & cpu issues with Analog Lab 3
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 01:42:29 am »
After a day of testing various possible solutions....
This is my update...
Uninstalled then reinstalled latest version of Lab 3....still same cpu problem
Installed asio4all driver...made no difference
Disabled all other programs running in the background i.e. wifi, anti virus, etc etc....no change
Now the cpu is peaking when playing grand piano, Matrix synth and a couple of other Lab synths, especially those sounds with long sustain or reverb/delay
Cannot use multi mode as this really upsets cpu..
However when checking usage on my laptop while playing the Lab 3 sounds, it shows it only using up to 16% usage?
Have played around with all buffer and asio settings, but made no difference...
I downloaded Dexed soft synth and it runs without any issues and the cpu cooler fan never comes on, so seems Arturia Lab 3 is really heavy on cpu compared to other software.
Issues gets worse the more the laptop is used and warms up.
However it did not crash today :)
My laptop is 64 bit and Lab 3 32 bit...does this make any difference?
Not sure where to find the turbo boost on the processor you mentioned..
Running out of options to resolve the issue...

LBH

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Re: Sound issue with JP8 synth on Analog Lab 3
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 04:38:47 am »
First of all. You really should'nt have issues. Have you tried to turn down the volume on AL3 GUI itself (it's important it's this volume), when you have issues, just like i have suggested?
If the informations you give is true, then it could very well just be a volume issue you have, just like when overdriving the input on an amplifier. What happens when you do this?
I can get distorted sound on some presets  also depending on my playing, and get this fixed by turning down the sounds volume on the  AL3 GUI.


+

Also keep in mind, that presets names and details in generel is vital to be able to check your issues.

+

Is the 16% CPU usage you mention, the usage you have, when you play and get issues? What is the usage of the CPU core that is used most?
Look in the cpu core graphs in Windows resource monitor: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-use-resource-monitor-windows-7 -  it's all windows - just scroll.

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How can you say AL3 have CPU issues if your informations about CPU usage is correct, and no individuel CPU core is overloaded?

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And again what is your CPU model name beside i7 and speed? I can't help unless you answer my questions. There is a reason why i ask.

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Turboboost is a feature in a processor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Turbo_Boost
I only asked if your 2.7 Ghz is the turboboost or base frequency of your CPU. I believe it's you base frequency, but i can't tell for sure unless i have the full name of the CPU. Intel have a product ark that have this info for each processor they have.

+

When you load one standalone application of AL3 it does'nt matter that AL3 standalone is 32 bit and your OS is 64 bit. All the applications you have in ProgramFiles(x86) is 32 bit applications, so you have many beside Arturias.
I tried to tell in my last post. I wonder how much computer knowleadge and you have?

+

Set your computer's power for high performance like i allready have suggested.
If your computer is set to conserve energy, the CPU may not be running at full speed all of the time. This can have a detrimental effect on your computer's audio performance. To set your computer's power for high performance:
- Go to: Control Panel>Power Options
- Choose "High Performance"
- Then click the "Change plan settings" button. Make sure both power options are set to "Never".

+

Disable 'Windows Background Apps' like i allready have suggested. (If you are on the internet then keep your antivirus, firewall on. those was'nt what i meant to turn off. Keep in mind that wireless conections can create issues.)

Windows 10, by default, runs a number of Apps in the background, regardless of whether you are using them.

Select 'Settings' from the Windows Start menu, select 'Privacy', then select 'Background Apps'. From here switch 'Off' the apps that you do not believe you are using, or that you do not wish to run in the background when you are not using the program.

I have allmost everything turned off.
It does'nt mean you can't use the applications, if you switch them off here, they are just not running in the background all the time.
I also suggest you go thru everything in the windows settings application and turn off as much as possible. Both for performance, security and privacy reasons.

+

Try to set your audio at 44.1 or 48 GHz. Have you run it at higher settings?
If you use Windows audio, then set the buffer as few miliseconds, where you don't have such long latency that you can't play well.
If you use ASIO4ALL then try to start at 512 samples and go down towards 256 samples is possible, and then 128 samples if possible. The lower the setting the more demading it is on your CPU.
Some soundcards is less demanding on the CPU than others.

+

If you actually are having latency issues after doing all the above, then try to run latencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
This can  perhaps help to find the source for eventuel latency issues.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 05:03:12 am by LBH »

 

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