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Author Topic: MIDI Assign problem  (Read 6790 times)

jarviguy

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MIDI Assign problem
« on: January 20, 2018, 01:25:13 pm »
Hi,

I can't get the midi assign to work properly. I assign my faders/knobs on the CS-80 to my Arturia essential 61 faders/knobs. That works fine. But when I open up a new preset or restart the CS-80 I can see the faders/knobs moving, but nothing happens with the sound. If I move the faders/knobs by the mouse it works just fine. Anyone know what to do?

I tried the exact same thing in ARP 2600 and there it works just fine.

Same problem both in the CS-80 a standalone and in Logic Pro X.
Mac OS x10.12.6.
Processor 2 x 2,4 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Ram 64 gb.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 01:29:44 pm by jarviguy »

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 06:19:08 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia Forums.

I can confirm there are issues using Studio One 3, Windows 10, VST3, Standalone. Novation SL MK2 controller.

But for me there are different behaviors when shifting presets.
1. Like the OP say. The parameter move, but no difference in sound. This can both be because something is switched off like a filter, but also when it should work, as it does work when moving the parameter with the mouse.
2. The parameter for some reason don't move at all, and is actually unassigned and don't affect the sound as it should.
3. Sometimes it can work when stepping back on presets but not when stepping forward.

Test:
1. Set the preset browser to show Featured presets first.
2. Select the first preset "Ion Storm".
3. Assign a control to LPF 2 /Second synth line) cutoff. (It's unassigned by default).
4. Step forward in presets and try the control for each presets. Some different behaviors will occour.
5. If the control don't work stepping forward, the try step backward to it, and see if it works. Sometimes it does.
6. Check the assingment. The control will show assigned or unassigned, but should allways be assigned.
A possibility to create maps for each presets and saved with the presets would be fine, but this is not the case here. AFAIK this can't be done at the moment. The assignment should be global now.

There is something wrong.


@jarviguy can you confirm this? Have you something to add?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 06:22:37 pm by LBH »

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 09:39:16 am »
Hi again,

I've been doing some testing. The problem is when I try to assign faders in the "mid-section" where the ring modulator, sub oscillator, mix and some other controls are. As you can see on the attached picture, the faders don't get any CC# attached to them. If you take a look at the VCO speeds you can see that they get a CC#.

Aren't you supposed to be able to assign the mid-section? Anyone know?
And when I use this setup all the other setups go crazy, so I need to restart my computer to get things to work properly again.

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 08:25:25 pm »
Hi,

That sounds different from your first post.

Aren't you supposed to be able to assign the mid-section?
Yes.
I have just tried in standalone mode only. By me those controls actually seems to work when i assign using MIDI learn, unlike the test i have posted that show something is wrong.

How do you assign controls?
Purple controls don't have assigned any CC by default, but you should be able to assign one just by moving the control you wan't to assign enough. Can't you do that?

And when I use this setup all the other setups go crazy, so I need to restart my computer to get things to work properly again.
Sorry i don't think i understand this. What setup - the CC MIDI learn assignment or ....? And how going crazy?
Do you use Default MIDI controller config - and only that?

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 02:29:51 pm »
Hi,

sorry, I'm totally new to Artutira and the keylab essential 61. And English isn't my main language :)

Quote
"Sorry i don't think i understand this. What setup - the CC MIDI learn assignment or ....? And how going crazy?
Do you use Default MIDI controller config - and only that?"

I click the Midi-button in the upper right corner to assign controls. And I want to be able to save different configs to speed up my work flow, so I click the down arrow in the upper right corner and save the current config. For example I want to save one config that controls the VFC's. Another one that controls the VCA's. Another one that controls ring mod and sub osc. But when I jump between there different configs my assignings go crazy. Do I need to do this manually every time, or am I supposed to be able to save different midi assignment configs and be able to switch between them? I attach a picture of how I want to be able to do.



LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 11:33:06 pm »
What has this to do with the issues you mention in your other posts?
Is this what you in your first post said worked in ARP 2600 V3?

Do you also have this issue both as standalone and in your DAW?
"Crazy" can still refere to many things. I can't guess what excactly happens unless you explain excactly what it is that happens, and when it happens.

You should be able to use different configs like you show, if there is'nt issues with CS-80. But each time you load new configs, then only the assignments in the loaded config should work, unless something in your DAW mess things up or something else is wrong.

I don't use Arturia controller. But i think, if you use the MIDI Control Center, then you have some possibilities using Device Memories and Templates. But i can't tell for sure.
I suggest you read the manual. You can find the manual here: https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals
There are some tutorial videos here: https://www.arturia.com/keylab-essential-61/media - Don't know what they cover.
There are other forums for things concerning your keyboard and MIDI Control Center.

I use Novation controller including using automap that have some possibilities - like the possibility to use multiple pages to assign controllers.  I don't know if Arturias controllers can work with many pages in the same template, but it would be great. Templates might be the closest.
I don't work the way you show, so i hav'nt exsperience working that way. But i hope this helps anyway.

The issue i told about in my first post in this thread is still an issue. That was'nt your issue an any point?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 02:56:43 am by LBH »

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 10:06:32 pm »
Hi LBH,

I just realised I haven't answered any of your questions. Sorry for that.

To be clear, the problem I have with assigning isn't just restricted to the "mid-section". The problem occurs whatever I assign. And in every synth I realised.

Quote
But for me there are different behaviors when shifting presets.
1. Like the OP say. The parameter move, but no difference in sound. This can both be because something is switched off like a filter, but also when it should work, as it does work when moving the parameter with the mouse.
2. The parameter for some reason don't move at all, and is actually unassigned and don't affect the sound as it should.
3. Sometimes it can work when stepping back on presets but not when stepping forward.

Same thing here. And sometimes when a control or fader is moving, it is affectring another control or fader that's not moving.

Quote
1. Set the preset browser to show Featured presets first.
2. Select the first preset "Ion Storm".
3. Assign a control to LPF 2 /Second synth line) cutoff. (It's unassigned by default).
4. Step forward in presets and try the control for each presets. Some different behaviors will occour.
5. If the control don't work stepping forward, the try step backward to it, and see if it works. Sometimes it does.
6. Check the assingment. The control will show assigned or unassigned, but should allways be assigned.
A possibility to create maps for each presets and saved with the presets would be fine, but this is not the case here. AFAIK this can't be done at the moment. The assignment should be global now.

Same thing happens for me. I have the Arturia essential 61 where I can program different maps. But I have no use for the maps since only a dozen of the controls and faders have been given a CC number. Since the assignment doesn't work it would have been good to do your own mapping system.

Quote
What has this to do with the issues you mention in your other posts?
Is this what you in your first post said worked in ARP 2600 V3?
I thought it worked in ARP 2600, but when I did a deeper testing it turned out I had the same problem here.

Quote
Do you also have this issue both as standalone and in your DAW?
"Crazy" can still refere to many things. I can't guess what excactly happens unless you explain excactly what it is that happens, and when it happens.
I have the problem both in my standalone and in Logic Pro X. Crazy isn't that crazy. It means that the controls and faders start to affect other controls and faders. And I need to delete all the files in the Arturia library tmp folder and do a restart.

Quote
You should be able to use different configs like you show, if there is'nt issues with CS-80. But each time you load new configs, then only the assignments in the loaded config should work, unless something in your DAW mess things up or something else is wrong.
I want it so much to work this way. The first time I load a config it works fine, but as soon as I try to load a new config the problems start with faders/controls not sounding or affecting other controls/faders.

Quote
I don't use Arturia controller. But i think, if you use the MIDI Control Center, then you have some possibilities using Device Memories and Templates. But i can't tell for sure.
I suggest you read the manual. You can find the manual here: https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals
There are some tutorial videos here: https://www.arturia.com/keylab-essential-61/media - Don't know what they cover.
There are other forums for things concerning your keyboard and MIDI Control Center.

I think I'll try to post something about this in the MIDI Control Center forum instead and see how other work with their mapping and assigning.

Thank you for trying to help me out! It would be great if someone from Arturia would be able to answer our questions in the forum.

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 10:32:52 pm »
Hi Jarviguy,

Thanks for your answers.

Quote
You should be able to use different configs like you show, if there is'nt issues with CS-80. But each time you load new configs, then only the assignments in the loaded config should work, unless something in your DAW mess things up or something else is wrong.
I want it so much to work this way. The first time I load a config it works fine, but as soon as I try to load a new config the problems start with faders/controls not sounding or affecting other controls/faders.
I think this perhaps is a matter of exsperience. It can be a bit tricky. Try to save as new config before changing the old config to a new. (So save and change, -don't change and save). Still issues if you does this?

But i think you have some possibilities with your controller and MIDI control center.

Sometimes Arturia answer here in the forums. But they still need a precise description of what the issue/s is, before they have any change to help.
You can allways try to contact Arturia support thru your account.


jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2018, 09:30:45 am »
Quote
I think this perhaps is a matter of exsperience. It can be a bit tricky. Try to save as new config before changing the old config to a new. (So save and change, -don't change and save). Still issues if you does this?
I've tried a lot of different ways of saving and loading, but same problem.

Quote
But i think you have some possibilities with your controller and MIDI control center.
I have the possibility to save different maps using different cc assignments on the faders/controls, but since Arturia only give a dozen of the faders and controls in their synths CC numbers, this doesn't make any difference. I've went through CC#1-CC#127 on every Arturia synth to see what happens. It's only asdr, chorus wet, lfo, volume, filter, resonance that has been given any global CC#. If they would have given all faders and controls a CC# it would have been simple to be using their mapping system to program different setups.

Quote
Sometimes Arturia answer here in the forums. But they still need a precise description of what the issue/s is, before they have any change to help.
You can allways try to contact Arturia support thru your account.
I've mailed them and are awaiting the reply. I'll let you know how it goes.

Actually programming my Essential 61 with my U-he Diva synth works better than with the Arturia synths.

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2018, 02:58:05 pm »
Quote
But i think you have some possibilities with your controller and MIDI control center.
I have the possibility to save different maps using different cc assignments on the faders/controls, but since Arturia only give a dozen of the faders and controls in their synths CC numbers, this doesn't make any difference. I've went through CC#1-CC#127 on every Arturia synth to see what happens. It's only asdr, chorus wet, lfo, volume, filter, resonance that has been given any global CC#. If they would have given all faders and controls a CC# it would have been simple to be using their mapping system to program different setups.
I don't understand this. You should be able to assign the CC numbers your controller use for any MIDI assignable  parameter in an application.
How do you use MIDI learn for Arturias applications? Also when you create a new config.

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2018, 06:10:45 pm »
In addition to my previous post. Please read both.

I was thinking.
Can you please try the following and tell me the result?

1. Open CS-80 standalone
2. Save CS-80's default config as "Test 1" in CS-80.
3. While on this "Test 1" config - Click the MIDI learn botton. (You see the GUI like the image you have posted. The red parameters has a control assigned, the purple can be assigned a control. All purple and red parameters can be assigned, but to me it sounds like you are not aware of this.)
4. Click the CS-80 parameter "Attack" in the Ring Modulator, and you see a pop up window. (more about MIDI learn in the manual section "3.2.8 MIDI Learn assignment" page 21.)
5. Move the first fader on your Arturia controller untill you see it's assigned to the software parameter. You'll see the parameter turns red.
6. Close the pop-up and the MIDI learn Window.

Now the first fader on your controller should control the "Attack" parameter in the Ring Modulator when you have the config "Test 1" loaded.

Now:
7. Save the config as "Test 2" in CS-80
8. While on this "Test 2" config - Again click the MIDI learn botton.
9. Click the CS-80 parameter "Decay" in the Ring Modulator, and you see a pop up window.
10. Move the same first fader as above on your Arturia controller untill you see it's assigned to the software parameter. (Don't change any CC number on your controller.) You'll see, that the parameter that was assigned to the same controller fader in the config Test 1 turns purple again, as you assign it to another parameter in this config.
11. Close the pop-up and the MIDI learn Window.

Now the first fader on your controller should control the "Decay" parameter in the Ring Modulator when you have the config "Test 2" loaded.

Now:
12. Load the config "Test 1".
Now the first fader on your controller should control the "Attack" parameter in the Ring Modulator.
13. Load the config "Test 2".
Now the first fader on your controller should control the "Decay" parameter in the Ring Modulator.

Do you get this result? I do.
This is how it should work, and how it work here by me.

Notice that this have been done without changing any CC numbers anywhere. To me it sound like you change your controllers CC numbers all the time.
One CC can only control one parameter in one config in CS-80. Your controller also have a limited number of controls availble at a time, and that's what you can control with that controller with that setup or config or whatever.

Be aware, that both this parameters will only have an effect if other parameters in the Ring Modulator is set so the Ring Modulator has an effect. But you'll see the the assigned parameters move on the screen anyway.


Using your controllers possiblities, then you perhaps can have more setups where your controller have different CC set-ups. But you still have to assign the controls to the software yourself. And each setup is limited to use only the one CC number pr control. But in most cases you don't need to change CC numbers, but just asssign the number your  control have. Some CC numbers is reserved, and can and/ or should not be used for MIDI learn. I can only suggest you study this.
 

Please be aware, that Analog Lab has limitations in availble parameters. You only have full access to parameters in CS-80 if you use it alone or if you load it into Analog Lab. It sound to like you describe this speciel feature for your controller. There are other possibilities. Your controller can control any assignable parameter in any application, but not all parameters have to be pre assigned from the factory, like i have get the idea you talk about, when you mention U-He.

Please be precise in your description of what you actually does. Otherwise it's hard to find out what's wrong. Also a precise description about a symptom instead of just use the words "go crazy" is needed to be able to troubleshoot.

But i hope this is a step further.

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2018, 10:50:04 pm »
Thanks for not giving up on trying to help me, LBH! :)

I'm aware that the red are assigned and the purple aren't. And I know that the assigned controls show what CC number they are assigned to. And I know how the different configs should work, but they don't work for me. I've read the manual. I'm just really bad at expressing myself in English and describing the problem and what I've been doing.

Quote
Can you please try the following and tell me the result?
I've tried what your describing, step by step, exactly. And I've tried exactly this a hundred times before, and also in slightly different ways, just to be sure I don't make just a little step wrong. So I think there must be something wrong with my Arturia software synths or with my Essential 61. So to describe what happens:

When I'm on your step 5 the control doesn't always turn red. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But still the control affects the sound. And same thing on your step 10. The control affects the sound. But when I'm on step 12 and try to load the Test 1, the Attack moves, but it is the decay that is affected. It's always like this for me. The last assigned config is the one being affecting the sounds. So even if the controls are moving from the config loaded, it's the last assigned config that is sounding. Do you get what I mean by this?



This is the step by step I sent to the technichal support:


My setup is Mac Pro 64 gb ram, 2 x 3,46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon, OS Sierra 10.12.16, Arturia Essential 61 and Logic Pro X and Standalone.
This is what I do, step by step, in the ARP 2600 V3 3.2.1.1216, I've tried both in Standalone and Logic Pro X.

First of all I've emptied the tmp folder in the library/arturia/arp2600/ folder before I start the synth.
Then I do this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose Empty.
2. I save the current config as VCF
3. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
4. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
5. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. 1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose Empty.
2. I save the current config as VCO 1 & VCO 2
3. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
4. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
5. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose VCF.
2. The assigned faders and controls are moving, but the sound is not affected by it. Sometimes it is affected as the former config. When I touch the faders or controls by the mouse the sound is affected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



I've also tried this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose Empty.
2. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
3. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
4. I save the current config as VCF
5. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. 1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and unassign all Midi.
2. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
3. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
4. I save the current config as VCO 1 & VCO 2
5. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose VCF.
2. The assigned faders and controls are moving, but the sound is not affected by it. Sometimes it is affected as the former config. When I touch the faders or controls by the mouse the sound is affected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




And I've also tried this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I click Map Select on my Essential 61 and choose User 1 (where I've assigned CC#10-26)
2. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose Empty.
3. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
4. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
5. I save the current config as VCF
6. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. I click Map Select on my Essential 61 and choose User 2 (where I've assigned CC#27-43)
2. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose Empty.
3. I click the Midi Learn symbol.
4. I assign the controls and faders I want to use.
5. I save the current config as VCO1 & VCO2
6. It works fine.

Then I do this:
1. I click Map Select on my Essential 61 and choose User 1 (where I've assigned CC#10-26)
2. I click the MIDI Controller configs and choose VCF.
2. The assigned faders and controls are moving, but the sound is not affected by it. Sometimes it is affected as the former config. When I touch the faders or controls by the mouse the sound is affected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

LBH

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2018, 01:07:49 am »
Thanks jarviguy.
Good you don't give up.

As i wrote in my first post in this thread, then there is something wrong in CS-80. I used VCF-2 Cutoff in that test, and it did'nt work correct.
Perhaps it's something like that, that give the wrong behavior you exsperience with other parameters.

Based on your observations, i have tested further in CS-80, and i can confirm there is something wrong like you descripe.

So it's not your controller or your software only, there is something wrong with.

I have not tested ARP 2600, but i assume your results are correct.
I will not test anymore.

In this case i don't think parameter names matters if you exsperience the same issue on all parameters. Sometimes it does. But it's a good step by step description you have made.
I'll be interested in Arturias reply.

Best

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 11:41:20 am »
As you say it's not my controller. I've been trying to assign with my Nord Stage II and my Prophet '08 with the same result. And I've been trying with my sound card switched off so there wasn't any midi conflict there. I've been trying with my studio computer and with my home computer. And I have deleted the midi drivers in the library folder just to be sure there wasn't any conflict there. It must be something with the Arturia software. I'm giving up for the moment. Very frustrating. Looking forward for the reply from Arturia. I'll let you know what they say.

jarviguy

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Re: MIDI Assign problem
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 11:55:16 am »
This is the answer I got. I don't think he read my mail, cause I said I had already said I had emptied the tmp folder. I wrote back and asked him to test to go between different configs and see if it works for him.

And there is no conflict in Logic causing it, cause I don't have my synth as a controller checked.

I also asked him how Arturia think you are supposed to be working with the different maps in the Essential 61, since there are only a few controls in the software synths that has a midi number assigned. I think it would be great, as it is in other software synths, that you can choose to assign a midi number to any control. Then the mapping would be a piece of cake and I wouldn't need to use different configs, just different maps (user settings) on my Keylab Essential 61. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

So no progress yes. I'll let you know how it developes.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I- The following instructions will explain how to delete the plugins prefs files to potentially fix the issue faced:

1) Go to the concerned plugin folder:
a) Open Finder

b) Press: Cmd + Shift + G

c) Type : /Library/Arturia/

> And click on Go.

d) Select the concerned product and open it's "tmp" folder


2) Once you are in the temp folder, you will see numerous files.

Delete all the ones you can find.
It will reset your plug-in's preferences and potentially solve your issue.
(Please note that it won't harm your installation as these files are automatically re-created on start.)

II-Now take notice that sometimes the DAW can interfere with the communication between the MIDI Controller and the Plug In, this is because the Control Surface features of the DAW monopolize the MIDI Controller.

Have you checked that LPX is not using the MIDI controller as a Control Surface and interfering with the communication with the Plug In. verify that the checkmark of the KeyLab is off,  on the MIDI Controllers sub tab of the Control Surface Tab. ​

 

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