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Author Topic: sequences won't stop  (Read 3134 times)

tonycore

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sequences won't stop
« on: December 13, 2017, 08:59:19 pm »
When I hit a key on my KeyLab 88 using a Buchla Easel sequence patch (nearly all the sequence patches) in Analog Lab 3, the only way I am able to get the sequence to stop is by either changing patch or clicking the "Panic" button on the bottom of the AL3 window. Is there another way, please?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 03:53:20 am by tonycore »

LBH

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 10:28:36 pm »
Have you tried to study the synth? It can help if you name one or more presets to tell if it a fault or not for that preset.

I can't tell for sure. But i think in most cases it's the way the preset is programmed. There can be different things that triggers the sound. If programmed to do so, then it's not a fault.
A synth like this is often played by setting things to play in some way or another, and then using both hands to manipulate controls. The sound has to be programmed to stop playing at key off, if you wan't it to do so.

But with the great preset "LA 2049", then it (as far as i can tell) should not play after keyoff. But sometimes the low end sound hangs. The sequence can be stopped though, when playing the same note or perhaps other notes until the note don't hang. It's kind of random. So it look like it's a fault. This Arturia should have a look at. Can't tell if any other  Will you take a look at this Arturia?

Germain.arturia

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 03:03:30 pm »
Hi all,
thanks for your reply on this one LBH (and obviously on other posts too!  :) )

I agree that the Buchla Easel V needs a lot of study to understand how it really behaves. Moreover, using it in Analog Lab 3 , without the ability to check the instrument GUI, if you don't own a license for the Buchla Easel V or the VC6, add some complexity in general understanding.

About the non-stop playing sequences , here are my observations based on the "featured" sequences of the Buchla Easel V in Analog Lab 3. Sorry in advance for not providing analysis of ALL sequences, i'm a bit running out of time on these days post Vc6 release, but i'll be happy to give details if you have any doubt on any Buchla Easel V preset :

Cycling rotation -> no issue here

LA 2049 -> the reason of these hanging low sounds, is because the gravity module is set on "run" mode, so the module is processing by itself. if you look at the modulations applied in this specific module, and a closer look at the projectile path (don't spend too much time on looking, it's hypnotic  ;D) , it explains why this phenomenon is happening. So for this one , it is by design.

Square attack -> no issue here

Your move -> no issue here

Randometalik -> Actually, on this one, it is because the pulser is self -trigging and mapped to gate 1 cv input, and it's source of trigging is the sequencer module. The sequencer itself is trigged by internal clock. These 2 main reasons explain why it can't be stopped. again, it is by design.

Deep forest -> Same story as above. except that pulser output is mapped to gate 1 AND 2 cv inputs. by design again.

Downard -> this time, the envelope generator module (output mapped to gate 1 cv input) is trigged by the sequencer module, and sequencer is trigged by internal clock. By design again.

Hope this helps,
feel free to come back to me if needed!

best regards,


LBH

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 04:15:37 pm »
Hi Germain,

I'm a bit puzzled that the Gravity, that i by the way find to be a great feature in the spirit of the synth, can cause hanging notes.
And in the LA2049 preset Gravity don't trigger notes. It trigger gate, just like the the Random voltage does. Why should that cause hanging notes sometimes only? There is no note triggered.

Best

EDIT: Gate 2 is also controlled be the Gracity and also by the Pulser. But that don't hang. EDIT END

EDIT 2: The random voltage is controlled by Keyboard, and thus should'nt it turn off at key off?
If i remove the Random Voltage Gate 1 modulation, then the hanging note stop. So it look like the Random Voltage is'nt turned off at key up as i guess it shall when it's controlled by Keyboard. Or? EDIT END

EDIT 3: I can see it's about gate 1 is open at key up caused by the Random Voltage. But should'nt key up in this case set the voltage from the Random Voltage to Zero and stop the modulation? I would like that. Otherwise can Gate modulation (not directly by the keyboard, but even from sources controlled by the keyboard) give this hanging note behavior.  I's a limitation in usage, if that's correct. EDIT END
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 05:15:45 pm by LBH »

LBH

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 11:56:03 pm »
The hardware Buchla Easel manual say this:
"RANDOM VOLTAGE is a source of stored random voltage levels. When triggered by the KEYBOARD,
PULSER, or SEQUENCER a new, uncorrelated random voltage appears at each of the four white outputs on the Patch Field. These voltages will remain at a constant value until another trigger is applied."
So - It do look like the voltage will not be closed, and then hanging notes in a patch like this can be.

The Arturia Easel manual could use more info about how triggers work. Also when used in one module that trigger another module.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 12:51:02 am by LBH »

tonycore

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 02:52:36 am »
Thanks, you guys, for working on this! I haven't had a chance yet to go deeper, but when I do I will bear in mind what you've written here. More clarity would be great, and so would an easy way to stop a sequence once it's started! (even, in my opinion, if the hardware is a little different...)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 05:14:23 am by tonycore »

LBH

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 04:53:11 am »
an easy way to stop a sequence once it's started!
One can say the panic button is a stop switch. So perhaps that or something else that stop everything can be added somehow,so it can be assigned a control.

You can allready also just close the gates. Then you will hear no sound. But this is not possible for the Gate modulations in Analog Lab 3.

You also have the master volume, you can turn down.

Easels sequences mostly is'nt just a normal sequencer running, but can be many different kind of modulations of parameters.
It's a different kind of synth, and much is about the design of a preset. But yes it would be nice if there was stop swith of some kind and an option to have a key off to stop everything too.


BTW Germain: When using more than one voice, then the step indicators on the Sequential voltage source only follow one of the voices. I guess voice number 1.
Perhaps this can have an impact on other things too.

Any individual personal VC6 upgrade offers?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 04:58:00 am by LBH »

Germain.arturia

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 12:05:32 pm »
Hi all,
 indeed you can use the panic button, located in AL3 bottom toolbar. But unfortunately, this button is not assignable, as it is an internal parameter. Nevermind if you're using an Arturia controller, or any other controller.
You can also send an "all notes off" message from the Keylab 88 (and other keylab series, not the keylab essential) but i agree it is a bit tricky !
I tried to do this with the Buchla Easel V, it did not work. After some investigations, it appears that the Buchla Easel V doesn't respond to "all notes off" message. I've just logged a feature request in our database for that, we'll do our best to implement it on next update.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

@ LBH :
About the sequencer, you're totally right, and we're also aware of this. to figure out,  i set the Buchla Easel V in poly mode (at least 2 voices) i set sequencer source on keyboard :
hold one note -> step moves
play another hote, while keeping previous one held , step won't move .
So indeed, only voice number 1 (or 0) is acting. For sure, devs will have a look at this specific case for a next update, but i don't know what will be done here for now.

About any personal offer, i invite you to go to our website, and log in to your account, to see what is applied in your case.
Please note that from my purely technician point of view,  i won't discuss about price questions. Thanks for understanding !

best regards,




Kevin R

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2017, 04:29:07 am »
an easy way to stop a sequence once it's started!
Any individual personal VC6 upgrade offers?

Mine is probably the same as yours, 199.00 to upgrade from version 5. I just did it. Been messing around with the Easel and going over it's manual. I find it very captivating. It's so unusual. I wanted to buy it and thought I would for 99 dollars and also the 20 dollar update to the pianos but then realized that at 199 dollars for the whole thing then the other three synths only cost about 27 dollars each. So why not.

pleudoniem

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Re: sequences won't stop
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 04:05:51 am »
I have Melda's MDrummer, and what that does is that it assigns a midi note that stops a sequence. I suggest you do that for the Easel as well. So, if you assign a note that nobody ever uses, say a C1 or a C9, then you can simply 'draw' or 'play' that into your midi sequence, and make the thing stop. I have found it truly discouraging that notes just won't shut up, and it also demotivates me from using the Easel. Which is a pity, because the sounds themselves are very interesting. I would love to use them, which is why I bought it in the first place.

I think it should be no issue that the original Easel did not have this 'stop' feature either, if only that the Arturia Easel was made for modern digital workstations that people in the 70s could not even fathom yet. If I was looking for a true replica, I wouldn't have bought it as software.

 

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