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Author Topic: V6 Upgrade.  (Read 32422 times)

MarkBog

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 03:37:04 am »
When V-Collection 5 was rolled out, I believe that existing customers received 5 new synths, PLUS a MAJOR overhaul to the GUI on all prior products for $200.  My opinion is that customers got a lot more bang for our buck back then.  It's very disappointing that Arturia is not listening to their customer base on this issue.

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 11:32:20 am »
Overall, though, it comes over as a not-very-good sampler. There is nothing in the manual that suggests there are any tools to help you get inaudible loop points - and the original presets again suggest not. The resynthesis may be the way to go but I'll have to wait for someone who has it to comment
It's a recreation of a 40 year old sampler that couldn't do the things you expect the VST to now do. There are a thousand ways to do what you want with other third-party VSTs and with tools already built into most decent DAWs, this is supposed to a replication of a CMI, eccentricities included. Give them at least a bit of a break.

I absolutely agree. I don't want to belittle what Arturia's engineers have achieved. All I am saying is that, for me, the CMI V is not attractive because of all the instruments which have bettered the CMI since it was in fashion.

By contrast the MInimoog has never really been surpassed, has a sound and playing style of its own and, for me, is a worthy candidate for creating a virtual replica. Arturia have done exactly that AND expanded its capabilities in innovative and appropriate ways. The Piano V 2 is another excellent example of how they've focused on improving an existing virtual model.

In my opinion I would have preferred Arturia to put their energy into improving their existing virtual instruments or bringing us new recreations of instruments which give us something different. The Buchla Easel V, for instance, is brilliant and exactly what I would have hoped for. It makes you look at synthesis in a different way - and in a way which doesn't takes a long time. The DX7 is also a good choice because of the original's huge popularity and the enormous sound catalogue available. Here, I think, Arturia have done the right thing with their ergonomic improvements.

I think there is a problem with recreating digital instruments ("Analog" Lab 3?). I would like to see them focus on instruments which are quirky and different from the herd but haven't been improved upon already. I don't see much point in recreating most romplers, like the Korg M1, for example (even though Korg have!). The distinctive sounds of the M1 are available as samples AND on most of Korg's newer rompler workstations. The Korg Wavestation, however, is distinctive and different from the herd and is crying out for ergonomic improvements. Korg do a virtual Wavestation already so it's an odd example perhaps (though it could be improved.

If Arturia are to continue emulating digital instruments I'd like to see things like the Wavestation (which was hugely popular in movie music, distinctive and different) or the Technics WSA-1 (which wasn't popular but was distinctive, gave a fresh approach to acoustic modelling and was relatively easy to program new sounds).

Just my thoughts

Gribs

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 10:31:51 pm »
I learned that the upgrade offer from Analog Lab 3 is $250.  I have registered three different Arturia controllers, including the Keylab 88, and Collection V V5 but my upgrade offer is $199.  That feels like more than a slap in the face TBH. 

The only new instrument that interests me greatly is the Easel.  I would probably explore the DX-7 interface to see if it gives me warm fuzzies compared with Blue 2, FM-8, Falcon, Operator, Sytrus, ...

I guess that I would pay $99 for an upgrade.  I am waiting to see if there is an upgrade offer that is better at a later time.
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Gribs

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 11:52:05 pm »
Overall, though, it comes over as a not-very-good sampler. There is nothing in the manual that suggests there are any tools to help you get inaudible loop points - and the original presets again suggest not. The resynthesis may be the way to go but I'll have to wait for someone who has it to comment
It's a recreation of a 40 year old sampler that couldn't do the things you expect the VST to now do. There are a thousand ways to do what you want with other third-party VSTs and with tools already built into most decent DAWs, this is supposed to a replication of a CMI, eccentricities included. Give them at least a bit of a break.

I absolutely agree. I don't want to belittle what Arturia's engineers have achieved. All I am saying is that, for me, the CMI V is not attractive because of all the instruments which have bettered the CMI since it was in fashion.


I agree that the CMI was an odd choice.  Maybe there is a market for an emulation among producers trying to recreate the sound of records from the 1980's or just be nostalgic.  I am an engineer myself, though in consumer electronics (not musical instruments) and it is definitely possible to get side-tracked into a project that is challenging and cool but not of high market value.

- Gribs
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V Collection, SparkLE, BeatStep Pro, Keylab 88, iSpark, iSem

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2017, 04:45:42 pm »
I was an electronics design engineer and later a software engineer then a software project manager so I understand the idea of getting side-tracked all too well!

Thinking about it a bit more if the V-Collection is about quirky and desirable old synths I guess the Fairlight is a quirky sampler with a recognizable and evocative sound so it makes sense that way. But other than doing covers of eighties classics is it something you'd want to use now?

When I was looking forward to the VC6 coming out I was thinking more of, say, a VCS3, an ARP Odyssey, A Mellotron and a Yamaha VL-1 or Korg Wavestation. Plus improvements to some existing models (especially Piano V). But those are just my hang-ups

Gribs

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 05:54:41 pm »
There are some progressive rock groups that make excellent use of older sounds.  The group "IQ" comes to mind.  On both of their last releases ("Frequencies" and "Road of Bones") I hear Mellotron and vintage sampler-style sounds as well as vintage drum machine sounds and classic Quadra leads.  I have no idea if the recordings were made using vintage instruments, but videos of the band do not show any old things on stage.
- Gribs
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V Collection, SparkLE, BeatStep Pro, Keylab 88, iSpark, iSem

jackn2mpu

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2017, 06:08:46 pm »
I was an electronics design engineer and later a software engineer then a software project manager so I understand the idea of getting side-tracked all too well!

Thinking about it a bit more if the V-Collection is about quirky and desirable old synths I guess the Fairlight is a quirky sampler with a recognizable and evocative sound so it makes sense that way. But other than doing covers of eighties classics is it something you'd want to use now?

When I was looking forward to the VC6 coming out I was thinking more of, say, a VCS3, an ARP Odyssey, A Mellotron and a Yamaha VL-1 or Korg Wavestation. Plus improvements to some existing models (especially Piano V). But those are just my hang-ups
Just because it's an older synth doesn't mean it can't be used in more modern music. Pigeon-holing a synth is dangerous. I'd love to have access once again to a CMI just like having a Synclavier. Also these old synths get used a lot in movies these days.

The Odyssey has already been done quite well in s/w as has the Mellotron. There are a bunch of synths that cover wavetable synthesis. Turning your words against you - are these anything you'd want to use in your music these days?
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Svenne

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2017, 11:20:55 am »
The DX7 is also a good choice because of the original's huge popularity and the enormous sound catalogue available. Here, I think, Arturia have done the right thing with their ergonomic improvements.
I beg to differ. One strength with Arturias instruments is that they stay true to the originals interface and feature set. Most "improvements" and features that were not present in the original instruments are "tucked away". Arturia has not followed this design philosophy with DX7 V. Unless you are very familiar with the original instrument, it is virtually impossible to discern what is original DX7 features and what is "enhanced" DX700 (as Glen Darcey called it in the promo video tutorial) features.

I would have preferred that Arturia had stayed with their proven design philosophy. If anything, it would have been useful to see a dual-instrument (as with Prophet V) including both the DX7 and the DX7II. I think that there was enough of difference in sound quality and features to warrant this.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 11:25:27 am by Svenne »

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 01:51:44 pm »
Just because it's an older synth doesn't mean it can't be used in more modern music. Pigeon-holing a synth is dangerous. I'd love to have access once again to a CMI just like having a Synclavier. Also these old synths get used a lot in movies these days.

The Odyssey has already been done quite well in s/w as has the Mellotron. There are a bunch of synths that cover wavetable synthesis. Turning your words against you - are these anything you'd want to use in your music these days?
i

I wasn't "against" anyone using old synths, I am a Virtual Collection owner, after all! I was just asking, specifically of the CMI, if there are people here who would use it in new compositions rather than cover versions. If so why would they choose the CMI rather than a more advanced, capable and ergonomic sampler. I'm wondering if I'm missing a point. As I see it I could use a better sampler to creatively make lo-fi, possibly badly looped, samples. Is there something more that the CMI offers? Is it actually a synth and not just a sampler (apart from an unwieldy stab at additive synthesis)?

I realise the same could be said of the Mellotron - a proto-sampler - but I'd be happy with a good set of Mellotron samples (if anyone knows where to get some).

As for the Odyssey being done before I think you'll find the Minimoog has been done before  :) . The point is more about having it as part of the VC suite AND with Atruria enhancements (preferably on separate pages).

As for what I use in the music I'm making now - clearly I am using Arturia's VC suite so I'm not averse to using old synths where they offer something specific. I also have a couple of wavetable synth VSTs but I don't think they are as good, creatively, as the Wavestation and not much better ergonomically

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 01:59:37 pm »
I beg to differ. One strength with Arturias instruments is that they stay true to the originals interface and feature set. Most "improvements" and features that were not present in the original instruments are "tucked away". Arturia has not followed this design philosophy with DX7 V. Unless you are very familiar with the original instrument, it is virtually impossible to discern what is original DX7 features and what is "enhanced" DX700 (as Glen Darcey called it in the promo video tutorial) features.

I would have preferred that Arturia had stayed with their proven design philosophy. If anything, it would have been useful to see a dual-instrument (as with Prophet V) including both the DX7 and the DX7II. I think that there was enough of difference in sound quality and features to warrant this.

It does seem an odd departure but the DX7 didn't have the "knob-per-function" front-panel of an analogue synth. Both in working principles and ergonomics it was very different. The ergonomics of editing were a bloody nightmare. I think I made one cello sound that I was happy with and edited a bunch of others but after a while the effort was too much. If Arturia have completely changed the front-panel to make it easier to use I, for one, won't complain

Svenne

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2017, 05:02:09 pm »
I beg to differ. One strength with Arturias instruments is that they stay true to the originals interface and feature set. Most "improvements" and features that were not present in the original instruments are "tucked away". Arturia has not followed this design philosophy with DX7 V. Unless you are very familiar with the original instrument, it is virtually impossible to discern what is original DX7 features and what is "enhanced" DX700 (as Glen Darcey called it in the promo video tutorial) features.

I would have preferred that Arturia had stayed with their proven design philosophy. If anything, it would have been useful to see a dual-instrument (as with Prophet V) including both the DX7 and the DX7II. I think that there was enough of difference in sound quality and features to warrant this.

It does seem an odd departure but the DX7 didn't have the "knob-per-function" front-panel of an analogue synth. Both in working principles and ergonomics it was very different. The ergonomics of editing were a bloody nightmare. I think I made one cello sound that I was happy with and edited a bunch of others but after a while the effort was too much. If Arturia have completely changed the front-panel to make it easier to use I, for one, won't complain
I'm not complaining about the fact that Arturia has implemented "extra features". It's how they have chosen to display them that bothers me. For example; they have included an Arpeggiator on the main interface page, added extra waveforms on the Overview page, added a filter on the Overview page, etc. I don't mind that they have included all these "improvements", but neither the DX7 or DX7II had these. So, the DX7 V is not a DX7 emulator (it's actually much more). Compare this to how the extra features are added to Arturia's other instruments. Take the Yamaha CS-80 V as an example. It also has lots of features that weren't present on the original instruments. However, these are tucked away under a cover. If you want to program "true" CS-80 sounds, just ignore these hidden features.

On the DX7 V, on the other hand, these extra features are mixed in with the regular features of the original DX7! If you want to program "true" DX7 sounds, you need to ignore all these extra features (arpeggiator, extra waveforms, filter, etc). The problem is that the DX7 V interface doesn't give you any clue as to which are original DX7 features and which are Arturia add-ons.

This problem could be solved if Arturia would give us a DX7/DX700 switch button, where the DX7 setting disabled and hid all the Arturia add-on parameters. The only other option is to become extremely familiar with the original hardware instrument!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 11:48:27 am by Svenne »

vibes71

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2017, 05:50:37 pm »
8/1/2016 bought V Collection 4 for 99 € (13 instruments)
19/5/2016 bought the V4 upgrade for 99€ (13 instruments)

6/12/2017 bought V6 upgrade for 199€ (21 instruments)
+ 8 instruments, seems a good deal for me...

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2017, 01:44:59 pm »
This problem could be solved if Arturia would give us a DX7/DX700 switch button, where the DX7 setting disabled and hid all the Arturia add-on parameters. The only other option is to become extremely familiar with the original hardware instrument!

An excellent suggestion!

Kevin R

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2017, 06:01:26 pm »
I realise the same could be said of the Mellotron - a proto-sampler - but I'd be happy with a good set of Mellotron samples (if anyone knows where to get some).

The M-Tron Pro from GFORCE software. I've had it for several years now. It is the tapes digitized. GForce works with Streetly (the Mellotron manufacturers) to put out new packs of tapes for the M-Tron. I've got them all. It's good stuff. The thing about the Mellotron sound is that it is an esthetic stylized product of the tape recorder age and has a quality of sound that only comes from a total analogue recording and reproduction chain and three or four successive generations of tape re-recording from the master tapes. It gives the sound a lot of non-linearities that make for that esthetic. back in the day they weren't trying to achieve any such esthetic but now they do it on purpose with the new tapes at Streetly.

I think they've got a 50% off sale at GForce over the holidays. You might want to check it out.

gregwalton42

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Re: V6 Upgrade.
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2017, 10:37:08 am »
Today's Arturia newsletter says the current upgrade offer is "the best offer you will ever get" and that we should "treat" ourselves. So, basically a big FU to all their customers who are saying the upgrade is too expensive.

I will be treating myself, but not by giving my money to Arturia

 

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