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Author Topic: DX7 V import V50 sysex?  (Read 428 times)

Despondo

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DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« on: December 06, 2017, 02:09:12 am »
I'm very interested in the new DX7 V, but have a question. I am the proud owner of a Yamaha V50 4OP synth from the 90's and have been looking for ages for a VST that could faithfully reproduce the patches created on the synth.

So far I've had no luck since the V50 had a few additional features that varied from the other DX synths and also since it used a different value scale in many parts of the program than the other DX series synths, including the TX81Z.

I am a bit hopeful in this case since the DX7 V has additional waveforms available, other than just the Sine of the DX7, but would like to know if Arturia has even looked into accommodating the V50?

I would love this ability, since it would allow for me to faithfully import patches from the synth and use them in future productions, as well as bring old productions back to life.

Summa

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 03:43:34 pm »
Hi,

not sure what type of features you're referring to, but except of the pitch envelope DX11/V50 shouldn't differ too much from the TX81z.
You could try to use the free DXConvert to convert your V50 sounds into the DX7 format first, importing it and change the operator waveforms accordingly afterwards.

http://dxconvert.martintarenskeen.nl

Best!
      Summa

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 11:32:14 pm »
Thanks for the link. I'll give that a go. So far, all of my tests with tools like this are less than perfect, but it could be a good starting point for getting these converted to the DX7 V. Main issues in the past have been with the V50 (and TX81Z for that matter) using values from 0-31 in the ADSR envelopes for example, and devices like the FM4 synth (http://www.primal-audio.com/fm4/manual.html) using a scale between 0-100. I tried conversions using a spreadsheet, but the patches came out nothing like to originals. I'll post me testing here once I get a few patches converted and let everyone know.

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 03:40:45 am »
Thanks for the link. I'll give that a go. So far, all of my tests with tools like this are less than perfect, but it could be a good starting point for getting these converted to the DX7 V. Main issues in the past have been with the V50 (and TX81Z for that matter) using values from 0-31 in the ADSR envelopes for example, and devices like the FM4 synth (http://www.primal-audio.com/fm4/manual.html) using a scale between 0-100. I tried conversions using a spreadsheet, but the patches came out nothing like to originals. I'll post me testing here once I get a few patches converted and let everyone know.

This works beautifully!!! Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction! I have most of my patches saved via MidiQuest, so all I needed to do was run them through the convertor. Import into DX7 V and grab the second sound in the list of 32 and adjust the Waveforms for the OPs referencing the patch in MidiQuest. I've been looking for a way to do this for YEARS and had no luck with other FM based VSTs (FM7, FM8, FM4, etc.) until the DX7 V came along. Again, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!  :)

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 11:25:18 pm »
I may have spoken too soon.  :(  It seems like some patches convert beautifully and others do not. I am still going through a bunch of presets one by one to see which ones convert best. I am still pretty convinced there is something about the V50 that is different than other Yamaha 4OP synths when it comes to values, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet.

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 04:07:44 pm »
Looks like most String and Pad patches DO NOT translate very well at all.

Pianos, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion seem to sound the best. I will have to either keep hoping and looking for a way to get these old patches working in a modern VST, or try to tweak them manually on my own.

The other exercise is to sample the whole patch and use it in Kontakt or equivalent device.

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 05:05:28 am »
Okay...I'm getting somewhere now. I've had to dive into the V50 menus a bit deeper to see how it is handling the ratios on the Operators.

It seems like they don't always get translated properly, so I have been manually editing them in the DX7 V.

Everything is starting to sound better now and much more closely matches the original patches.

I'll release a bank of the built-in 99 presets once I get through them (I'm currently at number 50) and will convert all of my custom ones as well. Stay tuned!  :)

Summa

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2017, 04:13:16 pm »
I never used the software, but they did some testing  within the YamahaDX Yahoogroup and I had contact with Martin (the programmer of the software) many years ago. It probably would be a good idea to contact the programmer in case you found a bug when it comes to the frequency conversion.

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 05:00:26 pm »
Good idea. I really think this mostly lies with the way the V50 handles frequencies compared to the other Yamaha FM synths.  It also might be the way the DX7 V is interpreting things as well.  I've seen these issues with the FM7 and FM8 as well, but it is a LOT easier to fix in the DX7 V (Plus, I'm on a roll!) :)

Krismiller1982

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 07:39:46 am »
I used the python DX converter app posted earlier in this thread. I tried converting the TX81Z factory banks but they all sound like crap. Hopefully Arturia will find a way so we can import other Yamaha FM based synths.. The DX100 & TX81z would be a must have addition for FM lovers!!!

Summa

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 07:42:11 pm »
Good idea. I really think this mostly lies with the way the V50 handles frequencies compared to the other Yamaha FM synths.  It also might be the way the DX7 V is interpreting things as well.  I've seen these issues with the FM7 and FM8 as well, but it is a LOT easier to fix in the DX7 V (Plus, I'm on a roll!) :)

Having a TX81z since 1987, knowing that all 4 Op models (except  FB01 and DX9) are compatible to each other, I don't think the V50 Operator frequencies differ from DX21 or TX81z. DX100/27 are missing fixed Frequencies.

@Krismiller1982

Sorry to hear that, never tested the converter myself, never had much interest in the TX81z factory sounds, thats why I started to program my own sounds by the time I got the synth. In case you're referring to the 4 Operator Sounds that are using the LFO S/H Waveform to create noise, those can't be converted properly to the original DX7 as well.

Krismiller1982

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 10:26:55 pm »
Id contend that Solidbass and Lately Bass are the most famous of all Yamaha FM synths presets... So naturally I would think Arturia would find a way to import the Dx100 and Tx81z presets. Why else would they include the TX waveforms??

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 10:52:58 pm »
Id contend that Solidbass and Lately Bass are the most famous of all Yamaha FM synths presets... So naturally I would think Arturia would find a way to import the Dx100 and Tx81z presets. Why else would they include the TX waveforms??

I know Lately Bass is already in the presets and I also think Solidbass is there too, so no need to import those. ;)

Despondo

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 10:53:51 pm »
Here's a link to my efforts so far with translating V50 patches into the DX7 V:

https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=91842.0

Summa

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Re: DX7 V import V50 sysex?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 02:41:00 am »
I know Lately Bass is already in the presets and I also think Solidbass is there too, so no need to import those. ;)

The "Lately Bass" should be one of my DX7 V presets, the difference between Solid an Lately Bass is the additional TX81z waveform at the modulator parallel to the feedback modulator. The difference should be slightly more beating, hardly recognisable.

 

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