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Author Topic: Can I create sweet bell tones using Audio Mod? Is this really FM?  (Read 11523 times)

guyaguy

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Re: Can I create sweet bell tones using Audio Mod? Is this really FM?
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2019, 06:44:40 am »
I have a my trusty TX7 module on a rack shelf for just such sounds.

 I'm unfamiliar with the term "through zero FM". Could you elaborate Guyaguy?
 Cheers.
Pretty much what Lunatic Sound describes:
The DX7 and similar Yamaha digisynths actually use Phase Modulation (PM) and were just marketed as FM, right? This also means that you don't really get the sidebands and some of the challenges, that (Exponential) FM comes with.

(I wrote this part, then edited it out, cause suddenly I wasn't sure sure if I am mixing it up with the Casio Synth, but they use Phase Distortion :D, and now I am editing it back in, because it also helps to understand the rest of this post better.)

@standingwave: Thru-Zero means, that the oscillator is able to run "backwards", when the FM reaches a point beyond having it go to 0 hz, thus allowing for strong modulation beyond that point or also for example allowing the oscs base frequency to be 0hz,and the FM modulating it equally to both sides of that point, which deals with some of the problems (pitch shift) introduced by expo FM.

In eurorack wonderland, there have recently been some amazing inventions on this front.

I think the Zeroscillator was the one to start the trend in modern modular. I use the Liivitera and it’s nice to get super complex waves in the analog domain, which is another reason I love the MxB—lots of wave variation if you modulate the Metallizer wavefolder with audio rate signals.

I believe digital FM synths use through zero oscillators which is likely more the explanation of why digital FM is “more precise” rather than a function of digital vs analog.

From my understanding FM is a result of PM in the design of the Yamaha synths like the DX series. But I’ve not tried to understand it in depth because the explanations end up having mathematical squiggly lines that just make me sleepy.   ;D
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 08:13:20 am by guyaguy »

standingwave

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Re: Can I create sweet bell tones using Audio Mod? Is this really FM?
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2019, 07:16:09 pm »
 Thanks for the excellent experience you guys!

  Its interesting that tech has come far enough now to have stable enough VCOs for the mathematical  precision that FM requires!
 I've been holding back from Eurorack for some time now but it looks like that is where some of the most innovation is happening in the sound design world.
 
 I'm bidding on a Sy77 as well as an SY22 at the moment though. Wish me luck!

Lunatic Sound

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Re: Can I create sweet bell tones using Audio Mod? Is this really FM?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2020, 04:33:56 pm »
the biggest reason for digital FM to be so stable and clear is tuning, because tiny differences in tuning make for big differences in sounds.

In the case of PM, as in the Yamaha Classics, there is no need to go thru zero,because the oscs base frequency will stay the same.

So to come back to the OP, you will not be able to create those sweet, sparkling bells with analog oscs generally and even less with the MxB for a number of reasons, nontheless tuned metal objects are certainly to be created and some of them even on the sweeter side.
Make sure the brute is warm, tuned (after warming up), and dial in the ratios very carefully, you could also use a macro knob with e.g. 50% mod intensity on the modulators freq or the FM index for more precision.


I did find the excellent article on FM,  but sadly it is in German. If you happen to understand that, do check this out, its rad:

https://www.amazona.de/synthesizer-4-was-ist-fm-synthese-und-phasen-frequenzmodulation/

Maybe we can determine, which type of FM it actually is, the MxB offers...

 

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