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Author Topic: VC v2 memory use  (Read 593 times)

scoplunk

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VC v2 memory use
« on: April 05, 2017, 07:35:26 am »
I'm confused about the amount of memory that VC v2 is using according to MainStage 3.3. There's a feature in MS that allows me to look at per patch memory use and it's showing that VC v2 is using 155 MB. How is that possible? I thought this was a model. That's more memory than some of my Kontakt patches are using. Just for comparison, I put the Martinic Combo V plug in into a separate patch, which sounded very, very close to the VC v2, but only used 12.5 MB. I know the same programmer is involved with both of these products, so my question is: why in the world is VC v2 using over 10x more memory? I use combo organ sounds so much, I wound up pulling out all instances of VC v2  and replacing them with Combo V because of the memory drain. Is this by design or a bug?

LBH

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 02:30:43 pm »
May i ask -
How much RAM do your empty Kontakt application use?
What Kontakt libraries do you talk about?
How much RAM do your other commerciel applications use?

Is 100 MB RAM usage or more that uncommon for the application alone today? (I'm not saying they have to use that much RAM.)


I too wonder why so much RAM is reserved and needed. Sometimes i guess it could be improved if the application code was optimized better. Sometimes perhaps it's not possible to optimize the code furher, and then the current reserved RAM for an application is needed to make the application work well and fast enough (calculations and code executions).
But i'm no technician, so an explanation for the RAM usage would be nice. Perhaps someone from Arturia will be kind to explain?



scoplunk

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 07:59:47 am »
May i ask -
How much RAM do your empty Kontakt application use?

84.4 MB. I never tried this before. That's higher than I expected. An empty version of EXS takes 14 KB.

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What Kontakt libraries do you talk about?

Library sizes vary quite a bit. For instance, the NI piano, The Grandeur uses a whopping 2.64 GB. But, The Maverick only uses 125.7 MB and The Gentleman uses 97 MB. The Scarbee Wurlitzer uses 84.5 MB - which makes almost no sense at all, since an empty version of Kontakt uses 84.4 MB! Now that I look a little closer, I'm starting to wonder about the MS memory reporting, at least as it works with Kontakt. Kontakt is actually saying the piano libraries are all about 500 MB, which makes a lot more sense than the large size differences I'm seeing in MS.

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How much RAM do your other commerciel applications use?

The soft synth Zebra is using 14.6 MB. Diva is using 58.4 MB. These are just random patches I'm looking at and no big scientific study.


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Is 100 MB RAM usage or more that uncommon for the application alone today? (I'm not saying they have to use that much RAM.)

Well, even 100 MB seems high, but 155 MB seems very high for a plug in that's a model. Usually, models are more CPU hungry, but don't use much memory. The Logic vintage clav uses 1.2 MB, vintage EP 35.2 MB, vintage B3 13.2 MB. All of Arturia's models that I've tried are using high 100 to 200 MB amounts of memory.

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I too wonder why so much RAM is reserved and needed. Sometimes i guess it could be improved if the application code was optimized better. Sometimes perhaps it's not possible to optimize the code furher, and then the current reserved RAM for an application is needed to make the application work well and fast enough (calculations and code executions).
But i'm no technician, so an explanation for the RAM usage would be nice. Perhaps someone from Arturia will be kind to explain?

Yes. I'm really curious, since the original model on which it was based (Combo V) uses so little memory. Does it have something to do with the effects? I suppose the convolution reverb might need impulses to be loaded and perhaps the speaker cabinet emulations are also using impulses. If so, I'd request a mode where these things aren't loaded until they're activated and just the model is being used, since I often prefer to use other plug ins for my amp and reverb needs. This is just a guess, though. Maybe there's some other reason for the memory use.



LBH

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 03:57:35 pm »
Thanks. That give a much better picture.

I don't know anything about Combo V. But there can be reasons for the difference, and that difference might also reflect in the sound emulation.

Apparantly there are differences between how MainStage and Windows report.

I think that kontakt libraries only show the RAM the individual librarie use - without the Kontakt application. So if you only have one instance of Kontakt using one librarie then you have to add both up to get the total usage of RAM. When i load Kontakt and then load Scaarbee Wurlitzer, then Windows show Scaarbee Wurlitzer add to the total used RAM. It's the application + the librarie/s RAM usage that's the total/real RAM usage.

The thing i notice is that U-he Zebra and Diva apparantly don't use much RAM. I don't have those. But especially Diva is known as a application that is heavy on the CPU. So if it use much less RAM than Arturias applications, then perhaps there is room for Arturia to optimize something like code and other things for the individual applications in V-collection - including the code used for the effects perhaps. For code i guess we mostly talk about the RAM needed to work - not to load.

It must also have an impact what size of GUI you use. In ProgramData for VOX Continental 2 the 200 % GUI seems to use about 60 MB and that's about 5 times more than the 60 % GUI and more than twice of the 100 % GUI. I don't know why Arturia hav'nt used Vector graphic to make the applications fully scaleable. I believe it's possible in interactive applications like this today. Perhaps U-he use Vector graphic?
GUIs in generel must have an impact on the RAM usage. Sometimes perhaps a huge impact.
Also i can see it might not be possible to use vector graphic when making Vintage looking GUI's. If people demand total authencity and wan't to use high resolution screens for audio work, then that can have a price.

All the GUI sizes for VOX use about 150 MB. So if all are loaded then that''s a huge anount. Only one GUI size should be loaded at a time. At least that should be an option. If all GUI sizes are loaded, then that perhaps explain the RAM usage and the load time, just like the use of bitmaps instead of using vector graphic can be part of the explanation.

Perhaps a loading of all GUI sizes don't mean anything - except for the applications loading time, if the unused GUI's are flushed from RAM if thet RAM become needed for other more vital ongoing processes.  But the loading time it self i would have as small as possible no matter i use high resolution screen or not.

It take a technician who knows what is going on to answer this. Otherwise we can only guess.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 04:48:45 pm by LBH »

scoplunk

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 09:26:09 am »

All the GUI sizes for VOX use about 150 MB. So if all are loaded then that''s a huge anount. Only one GUI size should be loaded at a time. At least that should be an option. If all GUI sizes are loaded, then that perhaps explain the RAM usage and the load time, just like the use of bitmaps instead of using vector graphic can be part of the explanation.

This could be it. 150 MB is close to the size I'm seeing for each instance. Vox V only uses 91 MB and, as far as I can tell, pretty much the only difference between Vox V and VC v2 is the new, resizable GUI.


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It take a technician who knows what is going on to answer this. Otherwise we can only guess.

Yes. It would be great if we could get an answer on this. I'm in a situation where I use a lot of instances and can't afford this kind of memory hit. With the sample libraries I can make aliases in MainStage if I need to use them in more than one patch, so I can keep the memory footprint pretty low. But, with these organs, there's no way to use an alias because I use different drawbar settings all the time. So, multiple instances can start using a lot of memory.


LBH

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 05:44:07 pm »
Do you exsperience any differences in RAM usage, if you use the smallest GUI?

scoplunk

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 07:54:45 am »
Do you exsperience any differences in RAM usage, if you use the smallest GUI?
No. Memory use is the same no matter what size I select.

LBH

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 02:05:46 pm »
If there is no difference in RAM usage using the different GUI's, then perhaps all GUI's are loaded then. If so i don't think it's a good idea, as i wrote. Perhaps it make room for the largest GUI only.
But the RAM usage can - as said, also still be about other things.

I don't think we can come closer to an answer.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 02:28:14 pm by LBH »

scoplunk

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Re: VC v2 memory use
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 09:32:30 pm »
Thanks for your help, LBH. I really appreciate it.

Now, we just need someone at Arturia let us know how we did with our detective work...

 

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