External In: How to Preserve Stereo Image?

[aspen1135]

I have this cool feedback filter sound from a delay based off the roland space echo which has then fed into the Moog Modular through the external input. I've patched Ext in 1/2 into mixers 1 and 2 with soft clipping turned off on both mixers and the VCA output since it's already warm sounding. The red LED linking is disabled so you get the sound in stereo. My problem is: whenever I route it through the Moog, it seems to completely butcher that lovely stereo image the Space Echo has created and is well known for. I would just like to run the sound clean(er) into the Moog to do some additional modulation that other VST's and software's could not otherwise do.

Is there a way of preserving the stereo through external in? Or is that just kind of how the 'Moog Sound' is? I understand it's not meant to be digital, but I still did not expect that dramatic of a saturated, mono sound coming from it!

[LBH]

Hi aspen1135 and welcome to the Arturia forums.

You are one of the lucky ones that don't need the still missing FX version of Modular V. Unfortunately i'm not that lucky.

However - It should be possible to process each channel seperately using the left - right input in Modular V if you are sending a left - right signal to it.
In the end of your processing then use one VCA for each audio signal and pan the VCA's left - right using the pan parameters on the VCA's.

Remember to keep the left - right audio signals apart and never use the same module for both of them. That mean if you for example need to filter the audio signals, then use 2 filters - one for left and one for right channel and so on. Allways a seperate module for each audio signal.
The exception is you for modulation you can use the same module like a LFO to modulate both audio signals, as that don't blend the audio signals.

That's how i would believe it should be done.

If you are getting distortion, then it perhaps can be the signal you send into Modular that's to hot or some volume parameter  in Modular V that's need to be adjusted. It could be in the mixer, in the VCA and the Master volume.

Hope i got it all, and you understand me and this helps.

[aspen1135]

LBH! Your awesome, this simple routing worked. Question is now: When your stuck with only 2 VCA's, how do you route stuff into modules when the 2 VCA's are the last output stage?

I've always taken EXT in L/R into mixer 1/2, disabled the link so they are summed to one channel, then routed that channel through multiple modules and back into the VCA. But then it's not stereo.

Is there a way to pan on maybe a different envelope module, or via the mixing strip so you can start routing and modulating things in stereo?

Many thanks!

[LBH]

LBH! Your awesome, this simple routing worked. Question is now: When your stuck with only 2 VCA's, how do you route stuff into modules when the 2 VCA's are the last output stage?

I've always taken EXT in L/R into mixer 1/2, disabled the link so they are summed to one channel, then routed that channel through multiple modules and back into the VCA. But then it's not stereo.

Is there a way to pan on maybe a different envelope module, or via the mixing strip so you can start routing and modulating things in stereo?

Many thanks!

Could you please post a screenshot of what you do?
And you can also describe, what you wan't to do.

The mixer also have VCA's yes.
But when i wrote VCA's then i meant the main Envelope VCA outputs as you have found out. But in the example i wrote about, they are the last stage and not just after the audio inputs like i get the understanding you are doing.
The 2 main Envelope VCA's is the synths output. If you route anything from them, then it will work like a feedback of some kind.

You can route in many ways in a Modular synth. It depend on what you wan't to do.
I attach a simple example that both use the Mixer VCA's as the first stage after the audio inputs, and the main output Envelope VCA's as the last stage.
Please refere to my first post too.
(You don't need to use the Mixers VCA's in this example, but i have in to explain some things, that's relevant to what you write in your post.)

The posted example do not use Envelope Follower modules, but i suggest you read about them, as they can react on incomming audio depending on the settings for the modules.
I suggest you read the manual and study the presets to learn about how things work. And then i suggest you experiment.

Also read about what the mixers "Link" buttons do. Enabling "Link" buttons link the Mixer inputs together. You don't want that for this, as you want 2 completely seperate audio signals - the left and the right.

Also remember the modules that have trigger inputs are triggered by the triggers you set for the module.

[aspen1135]

Ah yes. I can follow that example pretty clearly. However, I'm still flustered that there is no way to sum 2 L/R outputs into one channel. By routing two L/R signals rather than one stereo, you are forced to use more modules. And there is a limit to how many you can have in one instance of the VST (correct me if I'm wrong). I know you can swap a few modules out in place for others, but you are stuck with 3 filters and a singular ring mod, frequency mod etc etc.

I was hoping to go a little more crazy on the modular stuff than that

[LBH]

Ah yes. I can follow that example pretty clearly. However, I'm still flustered that there is no way to sum 2 L/R outputs into one channel. By routing two L/R signals rather than one stereo, you are forced to use more modules. And there is a limit to how many you can have in one instance of the VST (correct me if I'm wrong). I know you can swap a few modules out in place for others, but you are stuck with 3 filters and a singular ring mod, frequency mod etc etc.

I was hoping to go a little more crazy on the modular stuff than that

As i wrote then i and many others need a FX version to be able to use the Audio ins. But when you can, then lots of things is possible.

Let me ask you some questions.
Was'nt your original question about keeping a stereo signal as stereo?

How many synths do you have where you can use audio input, and how many where you have more than 2 inputs like Modular V has?
How many DAWs can send audio to more than 2 channels in a instance and make it work?
I'm really interessted to know.

And what's wrong with using more instances if that's needed?

What do you mean stuck with? What's going crazy? Please post and example of what you wan't to be able to do. Perhaps it's possible to do, if you take the time to think about it and work it out.



Stereo is two seperate channels. You can sum them into a mono signal inside Modular V if you wan't to. If you use the example i posted, then link the two used channels in the mixer and only take output from the one to the left. You can even still use both outputs, but the one to the left will have both signals mixed in the amount you set for each.
And on top of that you can send for example keep both the excisting stereo and create new modular mixer channels to create different blends of the audio signals to work with. Lot's of possibilities in Modulars mixer section.

And if possible for you, then you can also sum or mix audio sources before you send the signal to Modular Vs audio inputs.
You can then send as stereo or use one of the ways there are to make a signal to mono or kind of. Some DAW plug-ins make Stereo to Mono.
If it's possible for you, then you can also send different signals to Modular Vs Left and Right inputs. For example by using panned sends for your audio sources and FX-channels and perhaps busses. You can even blend signals between the two possible audio channels to send to Modular this way.

Even if i would like a true Fixed Filter Bank and would like 4 normal filters for 2 seperate serial signals, then you have more than just those 3 filters in Modular V. Perhaps also to work around you don't have that forth filter.

Again i will suggest you study some to find out how things works, and see all the modules you actually have in Modular including noise module with filters, S+H generators, Ringmodulator, Sequencer, trigger delay, many modulation possibilities, Envelope Followers and more.
And you can also use the mixer to mix signals in various ways before you send them to the output envelope VCA's. A modular synth is much about your imagination, but also about your understanding about what your modular can do, so you can be as creative as possible.

[aspen1135]

Yes I understand that the Moog Modular is special in it's flexibility and capabilities, that's why I'd like to use it I did not mean to discredit the VST, I was just a little surprised about the stereo summing thing. But I think I found a workaround based off what you were saying.

Create your modulation's in mono and utilize whatever you want. If you use a midi friendly DAW or anything with custom macro's, use them after. I use ableton and will map macros after mapping my modulations to the mixers within the VST.

Then 'group' or throw the VST in a instrument rack and create another separate parallel chain in the rack and duplicate the other VST instance to this new chain.

Go back to your first instance and route it Left side only. Do the same for the duplicate but then the right side.

Then Map your macros from the 'left vst' and 'right vst' chains together in the instrument rack to control both VST's at once.

It's a bit CPU intensive for a Live set that already has a ton of automation, sound design, plugins and rough mixing stuff as well but it could work. I'm on a quad core rig. My main bottleneck is the 8 gigs of memory.

Thank you again for your feedback LBH, probably would not have thought of that or even figured out the stereo routing without your help.

[aspen1135]

As i wrote then i and many others need a FX version to be able to use the Audio ins. But when you can, then lots of things is possible.

I'm on Modular V2 which does seem to provide an FX version, but I've always used the normal Modular V2 version for Ext In then triggered the VST on with a looped midi note. Cant you do that in V3?

[LBH]

As i wrote then i and many others need a FX version to be able to use the Audio ins. But when you can, then lots of things is possible.

I'm on Modular V2 which does seem to provide an FX version, but I've always used the normal Modular V2 version for Ext In then triggered the VST on with a looped midi note. Cant you do that in V3?

There is a forum for Modular V2 and one for Modular V3. This is the Forum for Modular V3. It's best to post in the correct forum to not confuse anything.

If you was/ is able to route audio into the instrument and not the FX version of V2, then i guess you should be able to do so in Modular V3.
V3 are missing the FX version only, and there are many posts about this in the forums.
Some DAW's apparantly don't need FX versions to route audio to a plug-in. while others do.