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Author Topic: Keyboard split not possible?  (Read 1305 times)

hermitnerd

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Keyboard split not possible?
« on: February 02, 2017, 04:51:13 pm »
the 4 Key Follow zones only zone the keyboard trigger - however if you have a mono patch and you hit a key outside of the zone, the pitch CV will still change, i.e. the key is not ignored, even when played outside of that Zone. 

So my current understanding is, the Modular V does not allow true keyboard splits, is that correct? For example if you have a DAW with two instances of Modular V on separate tracks: The first patch a bass sequence, the second patch a poly string pad, there is no way to split them across the keyboard within Modular V itself? (I know you could do it in the DAW with different MIDI channels etc. but that's not what I'm looking for)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 05:00:13 pm by hermitnerd »

LBH

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 06:06:58 pm »
AFAIK you can only do kind of keyboard splits as the filter settings has an impact and has to be modulated by an envelope controlled by a Key Follow where the LOW-HI settings determine the range for the envelope to have an impact. It's limited but it's possible to do something.

In juli 2016 i posted this feature request: http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=88042.0
It was before we had the feature request forum, so the post like others that have earlier feature requests are in the technical forum.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 06:10:30 pm by LBH »

hermitnerd

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 06:38:03 pm »
You are ON it LBH!

Yes unfortunately that won't work for what I have in mind, because playing ModularV3 instance 2 will "steal" the bass note from ModularV3 instance1, making for a very un-musical result...

I guess that means I will have to make some presets for MIDI channel 1, some for channel 2, etc. and do MIDI channel splitting on the controller (or use two or more controllers..)

I'm wondering if this is design is deliberate...to be as close as possible to the way a real Moog Modular works?

AFAIK you can only do kind of keyboard splits as the filter settings has an impact and has to be modulated by an envelope controlled by a Key Follow where the LOW-HI settings determine the range for the envelope to have an impact. It's limited but it's possible to do something.

In juli 2016 i posted this feature request: http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=88042.0

LBH

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 05:30:32 am »
Hi hermitnerd,

I'm not sure i understand you, but don't forget the keyshift and threshold settings in the Keyfollows. Perhaps they can help you.
 
Also i forgot - You can make a clean split or playzone if you trigger the VCA envelopes with a Low-Hi range set keyfollow. It can give a fully defined zone for each VCA. Perhaps you have got this allready.

I think my feature request to have all the keyfollows parameters to work on all OSCs and Filters K settings will be more efficiant and easy to work with, and will give more possibilities. But it's possible to do some things as it is. But perhaps not what you wan't to do.

Many things in Modular V is different from the original including the fixed filter bank that acts like a EQ and not like a Moog modular fiter bank, and like the sequencer that you can't do ratcheting on. What thoughts that's behind the design i can't figure out. I'm not a puritan. I thing a emulation in some way should be able to do the same things as the original, but i also like to have more things added, that can make them work in a modern way and give more possibilities.

hermitnerd

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 03:37:26 pm »
Hi hermitnerd,

I'm not sure i understand you, but don't forget the keyshift and threshold settings in the Keyfollows. Perhaps they can help you.

It's possible that I haven't fully understood the Key Shift part of the keyfollows... it isn't explained anywhere in the manual...but if you somehow manage to create two different Modular V mono synth presets, with long Releases, put each in a separate track in your DAW, and play them both simultaneously (without resorting to different MIDI channels or DAW key zone settings), I will gladly stand corrected.

I have been able to do some form of ratcheting - do you have an existing (like Tangerine Dream) piece you have in mind as an example?

LBH

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 10:55:53 pm »
If you mean using only one patch - no two instances, then yes there's a problem.
I also see what you mean about stealing.
When using a mono patch only one voice should sound at a time. (Unless when using two instances in a DAW. Do you have issues with that?))
It's not possible to assign a certaing voice to a "Split". So also when using 2 voice poly there is a problem. A voice assign is needed to be sure there are no voice stealing. It would be great if this was possible.
No question the split possibilities are limited as they are now.
Perhaps the problem with the VCAs apparantly are not working totally independent play a role. Not certain about this though.

The keyshift and threshold is like other things not well documented. Examples would be nice. I hav'nt fully undertood it yet either. But in this context i thought about using it for transposing/ pitch shift for a keyfollow zone. But i can understand now, that  was'nt  the issue, so it will not help you.



I have been able to do a single Ratcheting like effect using the Dual trigger. And a delay can perhaps do somehing. But the clock dividing is limited. It's not real ratcheting as i see it. I wonder how you do it?

A Tangerine Dream example could be the sequence used on the album/ soundtrack Thief on Diamond Diary. Scrap Yard use the same main sequence as Diamond Diary, but i think there are more various ratcheting on Diamond Diary.
Most of my favorite TD albums are from the 70's.
In this context i think it's most important if racheting/ different kind of clock dividings for each step is possible.



hermitnerd

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 11:59:53 pm »
If you mean using only one patch - no two instances, then yes there's a problem.
I also see what you mean about stealing.

No I do mean two separate instances. Try it! But make sure the Release time on both instances is long - having a short-release patch is not a valid test :)

There is no trigger stealing, but the pitch "CV" tracks across the entire keyboard, so one instance will steal the pitch CV from the other.

There is no way of playing two instances completely seperately, AFAIK.

LBH

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 01:21:29 am »
Yes i have tried it out now and agree.

Do you think the multiple instances affect each other?
It's possible to seperate two instances using my DAW input filter to make the split zones but still using the same MIDI channel for both instances. But this can't solve that you should be able to split in a single patch of a single Modular V instance using the keyfollows. And thus also when using multiple instances.

As i see it, then there is something weird when using the release. No matter if you use one or two instances then you can play notes outside a defined keyfollow range as long as the release is sounding. You pitch the release so to speak. ANd the
This is no good. In many situations it make split impossible to use as Modular work now. And thus also the keyfollow section.
The notes outside a set keyfollow zone for a VCA should not trigger anything.
And the release of a note should not be affected like this.

I can imagine it's the same bad behavior when using two instances.

What do you think?

I did'nt know about this. Sorry. I hav'nt tried this out using long release times before.

At least this found something that need attention by Arturia.

LBH

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Re: Keyboard split not possible?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 05:20:22 pm »
Perhaps the problem is you can't set keyfollow range for OSC's and Filters.
So my keyfollow feature request perhaps would solve this, if it was implemented.

BTW. I have also posted this in June 2016 about the sequencer. Also a suggestion in there about how some kind of Ratcheting could be done:
TOPIC: SOME THOUGHTS, SUGGESTIONS AND MAYBE BUG REPORT ABOUT THE SEQUENCER. http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=87924.0
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 05:28:51 pm by LBH »

 

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