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Author Topic: Polyphonic Voice Expander?  (Read 2545 times)

DrJustice

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Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« on: January 20, 2017, 03:06:14 am »
It's a bit early seeing as I've not even received my MatrixBrute yet, but I'd be a customer for a polyphonic voice expander.

Imagine a black box with just MIDI (and possibly a USB host) power and an audio jack. It would contain just the voice electronics x N and a power supply, no fancy chassis, no controls, no matrix, no analogue FX, no extensive IO.

Hook up the MIDI (or USB) connection, and the expander would be synced with the main unit when a patch change is made, and when editing is done. The MB insert jack and the expander could be connected with a single stereo jack cable, the expander would mix in its voices on the return signal and the resulting polyphonic sound would then go through the FX in the main unit.

Let N equal 3 or 5 and sell it for at most EUR 999 or EUR 1499. Bundle an editor app that can run it in stand alone mode for those who do not own or want a MatrixBrute main unit. Watch the cash registers run hot ;D

DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 11:31:53 am »
Noooooooo!!!!! :o

Just get me my MB , do not spend any time on an expander,  just give me an MB  :-X

If you want a Poly get the Deep Mind ,

Just let Arturia deliver the MB 1st :'(

DrJustice

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 04:15:27 pm »
Hehe... Well, I do not want a DM12. But 4 or 6 voices of MB?  Yes please! :)

The MB has been developed, only needing firmware maintenance from here, so the engineers could be free to quickly put together an expander.

DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 04:38:12 pm »
Don't listen to him ,
 
Well, I don't want a poly MB ,

I just want an MB

The DM12 has already been developed and it doesn't even need any firmware maintenance, keep the engineers on making MBs give them double shifts

Bin the Poly MB suggestion 

DrJustice

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 04:46:26 pm »
The engineers don't assemble the MBs, they develop products. Or... wait... is that the explanation for the scarcity of MBs :o :P


Edit: I just saw that the DM12 had another firmware update yesterday, fixing a number of bugs. The grass isn't always greener... and so forth.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:57:41 pm by DrJustice »

DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:06:30 pm »
Well don't get a DM 12 then ,

Just bin the MB poly idea ,

Focus on sense , fulfil the MB back log befor risking another problem

Reaktiv

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 07:00:02 pm »
I will use my microbrute to get one extra voice. But that's when I ll get my MB!
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DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 03:20:45 pm »
Is there any software fix that would allow midi attachment of say, a Volca which would only sound when the internal polyphony  of the MB has  reached the available number of MB on board oscillators?

My idea relies on the MB keyboard having many note polyphony. The Novation Bass Station , though a monosynth has a polyphonic keyboard

So , from the MB key board

MB key 1 ---> MB osc1

MB key 2 ---> Mb osc2

MB key 3 ---> MB osc3

MB key 4 ---> midi send to external device eg Volca , MicroBrute etc

I have turned  a Sub 37 into a 5 Osc per note synth by attaching a Volca , an MC 202 and a Prophet 1 to the Sub 37, but I have not got the knowledge to implement the above idea.

Each of the external devices allowed a unique envelope filter and cutoff/Q setting. The sounds were "interesting"

khidr

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 05:16:39 pm »
Is there any software fix that would allow midi attachment of say, a Volca which would only sound when the internal polyphony  of the MB has  reached the available number of MB on board oscillators?

My idea relies on the MB keyboard having many note polyphony. The Novation Bass Station , though a monosynth has a polyphonic keyboard

So , from the MB key board

MB key 1 ---> MB osc1

MB key 2 ---> Mb osc2

MB key 3 ---> MB osc3

MB key 4 ---> midi send to external device eg Volca , MicroBrute etc

I have turned  a Sub 37 into a 5 Osc per note synth by attaching a Volca , an MC 202 and a Prophet 1 to the Sub 37, but I have not got the knowledge to implement the above idea.

Each of the external devices allowed a unique envelope filter and cutoff/Q setting. The sounds were "interesting"

Yes ....it can be done using M4L in Ableton. Max has an object that allows you to count the number of keys that you hold down on a keyboard. You can use the route object to send the note number/velocity of each voice to a different output. So the MAX patch could sent the fourth note held down to a volca on midi channel 2 and the fifth note to a korg wavestation on midi channel 3. This way you could turn your Matrixbrute keyboard into a polyphonic controller.

It's been a while since I used Max, (i should really go back to it) But i managed to quickly make a patch that demonstrates that this is possible
To explain what's happening:
I 'm holding down four keys on the MatrixBrute and M4L is reading this midi input:
the poly object splits the midi info, and the pack object packs this slit info into pairs.
The route object sends these pairs (what a finger does) to different destinations.
Now all you need is noteout objects to send these different notes to different midi channels (= instruments)
What makes this interesting is that the poly object has a switch to set the voice stealing mode..and the MatrixBrute as well using the note priority switch...

Thanks for inspiring me this way.  :) I think i'll develop this idea further to be able to play my Supernova's this way using the MatrixBrute

See attachment for the patch and  details.....
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 05:27:37 pm by khidr »
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DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 01:22:29 am »
So you could use several mini or micro routes to give those extra Arturian oscillators?

No need waste time developing a poly expander ;D

khidr

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 09:39:10 am »
So you could use several mini or micro routes to give those extra Arturian oscillators?

No need waste time developing a poly expander ;D


Yes, if someone where to develop a poly-expander in Max for Live you could use two or three micro or mini brutes to play the MatrixBbrute polyphonically.
But....
It would be the kind of polyphony DrAKS describes in is first post: the first two voices  (osc1 and osc2) would come from the Matrixbrute and the third and up voice would come from the other connected synths. These voice would have a different timbre, could be very interesting and new.
I wonder what would happen if you would enable the arpeggiator and hold down a chord........
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Reaktiv

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 12:58:59 pm »
Very interesting idea!
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DrAKS

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2017, 10:21:37 pm »
Perhaps loop trigger the internal oscillators

DrJustice

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2017, 11:41:07 pm »
While adding external oscillators and poly chaining with other synths is interesting, it's not really what this thread was about :)

Back to the thought experiment of an MB poly expander... Some more points, since the expander as outlined could function stand alone with a software editor:

- It could be made multi-timbral. That would cost a little bit more since there's quite a few CVs per voice, but great to have, particularly when used as a standalone synth
- It could have USB audio, allowing easy hook as an actual analog synth plugin.

Some would just gen an MB, some would be fine with the expander and some would want both - it would cover many user scenarios. This might be good utilization of the R&D already done for Arturia, and a very cool system solution for customers. Then again, could be Arturia already has a polysynth on the drawing board, who knows...

(And DrAKS, thinking about this won't stop our MBs from arriving, don't worry  ;))

khidr

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Re: Polyphonic Voice Expander?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 08:34:40 am »
While adding external oscillators and poly chaining with other synths is interesting, it's not really what this thread was about :)

- It could be made multi-timbral. That would cost a little bit more since there's quite a few CVs per voice, but great to have, particularly when used as a standalone synth


Creating a voice expander would be a very complicated thing to do. It's not sufficient to double/triple/quadruple the oscillators, you would have to completely redesign the frontpanel. Take the Audio modulation section; now it's vco>vco2 etc. Having multiple osc would mean you have to create very different audio modulation routings.
Same with the Matrixboard; it's designed for routing all the modulators to two oscillators. If you want those modulators to modulate 6-8 oscillators  you would have to have a 64 by 16 matrix. Or if you want to stick to the matrix create oscillator  groups (osc1-4) and (osc5-8) and modulate the groups.
Same with the filters...you would have to create a completely different filter routing system or, similarly as above work with a grouping system (osc1-4) and (osc5-8) and route the groups through the filters.

A much cheaper option would be to create a hybrid machine, picture this:
There's a big sample button between the fine tune and the phones knobs. Pressing it will cause  the Matrixbrute to sample the current sound, which can then be played polyphonically on the keyboard.
Dunno, I think the analogue purist would object to that solution
With a bit of creative thinking however this could evolve into something very special: you could have a row of 4 to 6 sample buttons:
You're working on your sound ....sample/store the current sound under button one/voice one, you make some small changes, store/sample the result under button two/voice two. and so on up-till voice six. This would allow you to create 6 variations of your basic sound. Playing that polyphonically would be very interesting. It's a much much cheaper solution, that can be implemented without making any changes to the current setup and frontpanel.
Come to think of it; the patterns/link/seqlenghth/seq/arpeggiator row could double as a row of six voice store buttons. Implemented thus it wouldn't require any changes! to the front panel. It would then be a matter of a software update only!! Et voilą a polyphonix Matrixbrute!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 08:39:25 am by khidr »
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