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Author Topic: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing  (Read 2836 times)

andyjh

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Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« on: January 18, 2017, 04:48:36 pm »
If you assign VELOCITY to control Filter Cutoff, it causes note stealing.

To try:
Pick a patch - say BRASS - POLYSYNTH
Assign VELOCITY to filter cutoff and set depth to 63
Turn down CUTOFF FREQ to 20 (so the velocity modulation will have an affect)

play staccato chord in right hand (play and release) and then play a note low down whilst the right hand notes are decaying, the sound will snap off like note stealing,

This is with the latest version,    I assume this problem is not unique to my system ?


LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 05:41:39 pm »
I don't have that preset. Please provide excact preset name and be sure it's a factory preset.
I have tried this out on the preset "Poly Antitune" without having this issue. So i can't confirm you have an issue.

What are the playmode settings on the preset? Do you have "Voice steal" enabled?
Do you have any other cutoff modulation going on?
Do you use sustain pedal using the sustain function in the applications bottom panel?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 05:43:18 pm by LBH »

andyjh

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 08:40:08 pm »
I thought Brass - Polysynth was a preset, never find because any sound will do it, including Poly Antitune.

Try this basic test;
load in TEMPLATE SINGLE
Set ENV 2 RELEASE to 50
 -  check all is OK, strike a high note chord and then play the lowest quick quickly after -- all OK all notes sustaining
Set a new modulation (source 2) to FILTER FREQ as VELOCITY and set the depth to 63
Set the FILTER FREQ to zero
 - now play a high note chord, and then play a low note - the chord then snaps off.




LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 09:46:56 pm »
I can't replicate voice stealing doing like you write.

The template preset also have ENV1 as modulator for FILTER FREQ. What do you do with that? Setting the ENV1 release up too? If not try to do so. Any change?

EDIT: Do'es it matter how hard you hit your keys?  I do have some unexspected odd behavior when playing at low velocities. Like note hights are'nt recognized. An perhaps the filter are being cut, but it's har d to say after the time i have used, as it's sensitive settings. I have no voice stealing as such.EDIT END

Can you please tell the excact Matrix version you are using?


The Brass - Polysynth you mention must be a preset if you use it. But is it a factory preset? I don't have it. I would like to find out what it is. Perhaps i'm missing some presets.


Could you please post a preset using the single template settings you write?
And could you please post the Brass - Polysynth preset too?
Comparing the settings in them may help.
You can attach them to a post.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:21:57 pm by LBH »

LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 10:45:50 pm »
After testing some more i can say there is something weird going on. Both with the filter and the pitch. Sometimes there is voice stealing - or it sound like it. Sometimes pitches is retriggered and soundvariations is way too much.


I would still like to have the brass - polysynth preset.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:23:19 pm by LBH »

andyjh

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2017, 12:27:11 am »
OK, I have attached the Polysynth sound - it looks like one I created some time back.

Load it up,  stab a chord high in the right hand, and as soon as you have released the keys, hit a bass note with the left hand - the chord snaps off - not completely, but it sounds like the filter is being affected by other notes played.


I'm using version 2.0.4.1120 on a Windows 7 PC, and it doesn't matter if it is as a VST3 or standalone

LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2017, 12:32:14 am »
I tested the above in standalone mode. When i use the VST3 in my DAW, then things do as you describe. Just tested like that. So i can confirm.

I see you have posted. Thanks.

I see you have the issue in standalone too. Mine is different. But clearly there is something wrong.

Arturia will you please look at this issue?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 12:44:18 am by LBH »

machinesworking

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2017, 11:20:29 am »
I replicated the sound with Poly Antitune. It's how the Matrix 12 works.
The Matrix 12 is a 12 voice synth, only 12.  This is controlled in the VOICES section to the left of the MAIN section on the upper left of the plug in.
The voices flash green when they're in use, you can assign them  to Zones on the keyboard, if the zones are assigned to ROTATE then they will rotate through and steal notes.
Assigned to REASSIGN they don't steal notes. Oddly enough if you select V.steal so it's lit, it helps.

Basically if it's in any mode but REASSIGN it will steal notes when you bang chords out. after the fourth chord of three notes it will start stealing release time if you play fast enough, 12 voices.

LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 09:50:25 pm »
It's how the Matrix 12 works.

Unfortunately not correct -  as this happens even when you don't use all the availble voices.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:53:56 pm by LBH »

machinesworking

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 04:36:52 am »
It's how the Matrix 12 works.

Unfortunately not correct -  as this happens even when you don't use all the availble voices.
Read my post, in ANY mode but REASSIGN it is 100% going to steal voices, notes will cut off etc. The other modes either cycle through the voices as you hit the same note, or assign voices linearly, meaning they will steal voices in either case even you don't use all available voices. That's exactly how it works.

The preset noted to demonstrate this issue is not in Reassign.... I can't be any more clear about this, try it out, be happy, it's not a bug.

jeffbart

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 11:00:25 pm »
Is this anything to do with the broken REASSIGN mode?  That mode is known to not be implemented correctly.
http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=87898.0

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LBH

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 11:41:02 pm »
@machinesworking
Hi,
Have you read and followed the OPs directions and other posts in this thread to understand the real issue?
You'll have to involve both velocity modulation and note/s in the envelope release phase to find the issue.
Also please read the manual about voice steal and playmodes.

Your explanation is'nt the explanation and solution for this threads issue, like you claim it is. I wish it was. And if it was, then it's great to post about it. But the issue is one that you for some reason have'nt discovered. Not yet anyway.
Perhaps you hav'nt followed the steps given by the OP to replicate the real issue.
Or perhaps you have'nt tried it out using Matrix both as stand alone and as a plug-in.
But if you don't have the issue, then please post screenshots of your settings and/or attach your test preset with the settings you use to test, so we can check if there are issues on our applications to increase the issue.

The issue happens even if you just play one note and then hit a different second note while the first note is in it's release phase. It's 2 notes playing in total at the same time - one played after the other. You don't even hit a third note after the second.
The filter from the first note is either being decreased or the voice stop sounding, when you hit the second note of 2. Something is cut from notes that are in their release phase, when it should'nt be cut.
It happens no matter what playmode you use and you use 1 zone only, - and also when you do or don't enable voice steal. This threads issue is not a Zones/ playmode setting issue, even if the behaviors from them can be involved.

Similar issue happens in a similar way when Velocity modulate an envelope with release that's set to modulate a VCA.

Perhaps the Velocity don't work correct when there are notes playing in the release phase.
This issue can perhaps also explain some of the weird things happening, that has annoyed me for a long time when playing.

Based on the behaviors i get, there may be more to it. But there are issues, that need Arturias attention. It's actually a serious issue.


@jeffbart
Martine write this about re-assign, that explains it quite well:

"Voice steal should allow or disallow the stealing of voices which are still sounding.
But even without Voice Steal, voices which drop silent again (possibly all envelopes back in rest state) should become available again.

If that way of locking voices indefinitely, then I guess Voice Steal should be switched ON by default when selecting REASSIGN."


Enabling Voice steal do help in this case. But it's odd when playing stacato not having enabled voice steal, that you can't play a different note 13 even if none of the first 12 different notes are playing.

We can't combine this issue with the one in this thread i think, unless something under the hood affect on both issues.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 11:46:49 pm by LBH »

andyjh

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Re: Velocity to Filter cutoff causes note stealing
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2017, 02:30:15 am »
Another update version, and still the velocity to filter note stealing problem is still there


Can Arturia ever get this piece software to actually work ?

 

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