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Author Topic: CPU spike  (Read 2085 times)

nikbee

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CPU spike
« on: January 04, 2017, 03:09:48 am »
Hi all,

About a week ago my Jupiter 8 (and also the SEM) started making my CPU go crazy. Worked fine for a couple months, then all of a sudden noticed some of my Ableton projects crashing, finally was able to track it down to those two VSTs.

A single voice uses about 80% of my CPU.

This happens in standalone mode, or inside ableton, using whatever audio drivers at whatever sample rate.

Any idea? I've contacted Arturia directly and was told to erase a couple directories and reinstall. Didn't work.

I've read of other CPU spike issues, but none resembled what I was experiencing.

Thanks

corum_beasley

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 12:43:45 pm »
Are there any specific presets that you find this happening on? I had a play around with Ableton and got no more than 2 bars on most presets and the same was true for the standalone. One thing that happened to me recently was my main drive, a Samsung 850 EVO 250gb, got down to less than my Ram (16Gb), to around 6Gb and i was having random crashes and misbehaviour that went away when i deleted a few things to get the virtual memory size back to a figure above the Ram size. I wonder if the problem might lie there?

I have a ASUS AMD AM3+ 990FX SABERTOOTH and an AMD FX8350 4Ghz and so far the only standalone that as pushed it is the Matrix 12V, which goes to 4 or 5 bars at times. By spike do you mean it maxes out?

nikbee

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 02:51:44 pm »
Are there any specific presets that you find this happening on? I had a play around with Ableton and got no more than 2 bars on most presets and the same was true for the standalone. One thing that happened to me recently was my main drive, a Samsung 850 EVO 250gb, got down to less than my Ram (16Gb), to around 6Gb and i was having random crashes and misbehaviour that went away when i deleted a few things to get the virtual memory size back to a figure above the Ram size. I wonder if the problem might lie there?

I have a ASUS AMD AM3+ 990FX SABERTOOTH and an AMD FX8350 4Ghz and so far the only standalone that as pushed it is the Matrix 12V, which goes to 4 or 5 bars at times. By spike do you mean it maxes out?

i also have a samsung evo, 500 GB, but im nowhere near maxing it out. i built my computer a few months ago. it is a 4Ghz i7, 16 GB ram.

the intensity of the freak out depends on how many voices there are in the preset. so a single voice hits about 80%, but as i add voices it can go up to 800%. ableton/jup8/sem never crashes, it just crackles and freaks out.


corum_beasley

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 04:50:15 pm »
Hi, I am new to Jupiter 8 and im not sure what you mean by voices. Are there any specific presets that are worse than others, will make it easier for me to see what you mean. I played around with a range of presets.

I played around with a lot of pads and Ableton didn't go more than 14% and a couple of bars in the plugin's cpu meter

Most i get is with the Matrix 12v is about 40% in Ableton and about 5 bars in the plugin

I have had problems with Ableton and the whole issue of DPC Latency in the past and this page helped a lot https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071469-Optimizing-Windows-for-Audio

I searched for CPU spikes in Ableton and found this https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=215843 similar in many ways to the above but mentions power settings in windows too.

I hope this helps a little. Have you raised a ticket with Arturia support yet. They are always helpful i have found.


nikbee

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2017, 05:10:20 pm »
Hi, I am new to Jupiter 8 and im not sure what you mean by voices. Are there any specific presets that are worse than others, will make it easier for me to see what you mean. I played around with a range of presets.

I played around with a lot of pads and Ableton didn't go more than 14% and a couple of bars in the plugin's cpu meter

Most i get is with the Matrix 12v is about 40% in Ableton and about 5 bars in the plugin

I have had problems with Ableton and the whole issue of DPC Latency in the past and this page helped a lot https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071469-Optimizing-Windows-for-Audio

I searched for CPU spikes in Ableton and found this https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=215843 similar in many ways to the above but mentions power settings in windows too.

I hope this helps a little. Have you raised a ticket with Arturia support yet. They are always helpful i have found.

thanks for the replies.

yes, i have contacted arturia and they told me to erase my pref directories in windows. it didn't help. i told them this and they stopped returning emails.

by voices i mean if i play only 1 note, cpu hits around 80%. if i play two, goes up to 160%, three 250% and so on. if i moosh the keyboard with my face and hit 10 notes at once it goes to 800%.

my latency issues are zero. i monitor this regularly and have from the beginning.

the Jup 8 and SEM are the 2 synths which create problems. all the other arturia vsts work as normal. i have used the SEM and JUP 8 on many projects since i got the V Collection a couple months ago and they worked perfectly, without CPU spikes. all of a sudden they started spiking. i changed nothing on my end.

these are by far my most used vsts. frustrating

nikbee

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 07:30:27 pm »
here's some approximate results from a couple presets, just holding down a C0 key for a second:

Jup-8:

Arp Odd: 300%
Arpapa: 60%
Arpeggia Me: 150%
Ambiant Bass: 60%
Hosono JP8 Bass: 100%

SEM:

Acid Binge: 180%
Epic Brass: 50%.
Spiderweb: 90%
Agony Arp: 90%

???

-------------------------------

Matrix 12:

Low End: 5%
Low Shimmer : 7%
Lumbering Sync: 4%
Automat: 7%

this is how the SEM and JUP 8 used to be..

corum_beasley

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 05:04:28 pm »
Hi nikbee,

You've not mentioned your soundcard operating system but mine are Komplete Audio 6 and Windows 7 service pack 1. I am using Ableton 9 lite which is up to date.

I tried your presets with the following results:

Jup-8:

Arp Odd: 21%
Arpapa: 5%
Arpeggia Me: 12%
Ambiant Bass: 12%
Hosono JP8 Bass: 10%

SEM:

Acid Binge: 8%
Epic Brass: 4%.
Spiderweb: 6%
Agony Arp: 6%

Matrix 12:

Low End: 12%
Low Shimmer :14 %
Lumbering Sync: 8%
Automat: 13%

I wish there was some thing else i could suggest but at least you know how mine works with the same versions of Arturia plugins. Which leaves a mystery as to what might be causing the spikes for you and not for me. Have you tried Ableton support they may have something to offer?




LBH

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 06:31:25 pm »
You say you have the same issue in both standalone mode and when used as plug-ins. So i presume that in this post.

I also presume you use windows as you say you have buildt yourself.

I'm puzzled why you have this frustrating issue, if you hav'nt changed anything, and it have worked before. You are certain you hav'nt changed anything? Has anything been updated including your OS? What OS are you using?
Have you at any point tweaked your computer BIOS settings for your CPU or done any other BIOS or OS tweaks?
One can also ask if you have updated everything? Have you checked the versions you use? Do you have the same issue with both VST2 and VST3 as i assume you use VST?

Have you tried a full clean re-install of the two applications where you also manually remove the folders, files and plug-ins that might be left after a uninstall, and where you after this restart the computer, before you install again using a installer with the latest update downloaded from Arturias download page. - Perhaps like this?:
1. Export and back-up your own user presets.
2. Uninstall the Arturia application.
3. Rename the applicaions folder in the hidden folder ProgramData.
4. Rename the applications folder in ProgramFiles.
5. Move all the different kinds of plug-ins in different folders to a folder your DAW don't read - if they are not removed by the uninstall. I assume you know all the places where to find them all.
6. Restart the computer - as this sometimes do make a difference.
7. Download the latest updated installer from here: https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals
8. Install the Arturia application again and check it's activated i Arturia Software Center.
9. If things work you can delete the in step 3+5 renamed folders and plug-ins. Renaming is just a precaution. By iwn risk you can decide to delete instead of renaming or moving files.
10. Import your user presets.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 06:47:03 pm by LBH »

nikbee

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 08:10:11 pm »
Hi, and thanks again for replies.

corum_beasley:

thanks for this. sorry for not posting full details of my system. i assumed it didn't matter cause it was happening in both standalone and as a vst (using whatever drivers at whatever sample rates).

my system:
windows 7 64 bit
intel i7 (newest gen) 4 Ghz
16 GB ram
ASUS Z170-AR motherboard
MOTU 828 mk3 (a notoriously difficult interface. took forever to find a stable driver for my system, but has been really good for the last couple years)

ableton is most up to date version. 9.7.1 i think

-----------------------------------------------------------------

You say you have the same issue in both standalone mode and when used as plug-ins. So i presume that in this post.

I also presume you use windows as you say you have buildt yourself.

I'm puzzled why you have this frustrating issue, if you hav'nt changed anything, and it have worked before. You are certain you hav'nt changed anything? Has anything been updated including your OS? What OS are you using?
Have you at any point tweaked your computer BIOS settings for your CPU or done any other BIOS or OS tweaks?
One can also ask if you have updated everything? Have you checked the versions you use? Do you have the same issue with both VST2 and VST3 as i assume you use VST?

Have you tried a full clean re-install of the two applications where you also manually remove the folders, files and plug-ins that might be left after a uninstall, and where you after this restart the computer, before you install again using a installer with the latest update downloaded from Arturias download page. - Perhaps like this?:
1. Export and back-up your own user presets.
2. Uninstall the Arturia application.
3. Rename the applicaions folder in the hidden folder ProgramData.
4. Rename the applications folder in ProgramFiles.
5. Move all the different kinds of plug-ins in different folders to a folder your DAW don't read - if they are not removed by the uninstall. I assume you know all the places where to find them all.
6. Restart the computer - as this sometimes do make a difference.
7. Download the latest updated installer from here: https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals
8. Install the Arturia application again and check it's activated i Arturia Software Center.
9. If things work you can delete the in step 3+5 renamed folders and plug-ins. Renaming is just a precaution. By iwn risk you can decide to delete instead of renaming or moving files.
10. Import your user presets.



yes, i did build the computer. everything ran - and continues to run - perfect, except for this one thing.

regarding updates. i really really thought long about this and couldn't remember if i changed anything. normally whenever i DO change anything i set up a system restore point to get it all back in case anything goes wrong. the bios was updated, but quite a while before this started to happen (an update which made the USB 3 ports more stable). the most recent update was actually the arturia software. i've tried deinstalling the new versions, also the preference folders like you stated (this was arturia's suggestion to me in emails from them), but it made no difference.

i'm mostly suspicious of the bios update. i never thought that a bios update would affect how a software instrument ran.. shows how much i know..  :-[
i never changed any of the internal bios settings though. my system is not overclocked, and i think my cpu throttling is also off, but i will double check this. again, this update was months ago, and i would have noticed if it was immediate because i use those two vsts in particular on an almost daily basis. but maybe something else that was installed more recently was affected by the the bios?

i've never tried to revert to an old bios before though. should i give it a shot? is it even possible?

LBH

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 08:42:51 pm »
A BIOS update from ASUS is fine. It looks like the update succeeded as you can use you computer. So don't revert that. Your motherboard should run better with the update. I would keep the BIOS update from the manufactor of a motherboard. It's recommended to update if you know how, and take the chance it is to succeed the update. But you could contact ASUS and ask if there could be something wrong caused by the BIOS update.

My questions was if you have changed the other things you tell. I understand you have not changed anything. But if you have, then try the original settings.

If you have tried to do the things i mention - take notice it's not onlt the preference files i mention - then perhaps it's not a Arturia issue, even if it can't be ruled out completely.

Do you know, if others have issues like this with Ableton? It can be a DAW matter.
I would try to update to the latest version possible. If you are not updated it can be a reason for the issue.

I wonder why you use windows 7 for a new build. Software developers don't develope for older OS. Arturia know you use windows 7?
Do Ableton run well on windows 7 anymore?
Do windows 7 get other updates than security updates anymore?
This can't be ruled out as a reason, even if windows 7 is among the requirered systems. Windows 7 is the next to be discontinuet completely.
Why not ask Arturia and Ableton about possible issues with OS versions?

Your issue is a mystery to me if you have tried everything out and still have the issue. It's annoying issue. You have my symphathy.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 08:57:27 pm by LBH »

corum_beasley

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 08:56:52 pm »
Ableton works great on windows 7 i have no issues with it, i know of many who have difficult experiences with windows 10, so who knows what's right and wrong maybe i'm just lucky for now?.

Our systems are getting so complex they almost seem like they have minds of their own.

These kinds of strange issues are really trying as it seems everyone involved is working logically and optimising things and with good working practices from the sound of it, with highly specification systems.

As for me when i got my Komplete audio with the same windows 7 based system i was having terrible times with it until i correctly setup the the Komplete driver for my setup which is 44.1Khz Sample rate, 128 samples process buffer and 2ms usb Buffer. I dont know anything about the MOTU 828 mk3 but the USB buffer optimising helped a lot to reduce latency and stability.

All the best nikbee


LBH

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Re: CPU spike
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 11:39:34 pm »
Our systems are getting so complex they almost seem like they have minds of their own.
Yes the ghost in the machine is sometimes real, even if the ghost or whatever it is might have a reason to be there.  ;D

Beside that:
As it's only two applications of the V-collection 5 that have the issue and based on the availble informations, then what looks like to be the most logic way to perhaps fix the issue, if it's not a totally clean re-install in the way i have described?

When everything but the two standalone applications and plug-ins works then:
How can it be about the DAW?
How can it be about the OS?
How can it be about the soundcard?
How can it be computer component issues?
How can it be about anything else?

Have you messed with the registration database manually or using a registration cleaner tool of some kind?
I don't know if registration errors can stay after a re-install, or if any registration can cause issues like this.
Perhaps you can find a safe tool to scan the registry for corrupted entries in the registry. But don't mess with the registry unless you know what you are doing. Bu perhaps you can get some useful informations if you just scan to see.

Even if this don't look like a technical errorin the OS, then it don't hurt to run a sfc/scannow in the kommandoropmt as a administrator to fix system errors, if there should be any.
If you don't know how, then here is a video that show how to do it in windows 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEHB1W-5Rs

All this is only to do what's possible for you to do. Especially if you are certain the totally clean re-install don't fix the issue, like i still believe is the most logic fix.

If nothing works or show errors, then it do look like a ghost in the machine.
I have a hard time to believe a OS re-install should be needed as it's only 2 applications we talk about. And who can be certain it will work? But perhaps you have to try this as a last option. If you say okay for this option, then you can try a registry clean first if you have a application you can trust to do this. Also spyware can be in or come when using such tools like registry scanners and cleaners. Download and use safe stuff only. Be careful - especially with freeware.

EDIT: You can also try to run  Windows own DIsk Clean. Read all the informations in the cleaner. This is still just to do what's possible. I dAnd it' can be good to do sometimes anyway. Only clean what's safe to clean.  I don't think it helps, but who knows if we talk aboyt a ghost in the machine?  ;D EDIT END

Good luck.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:52:22 pm by LBH »

 

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