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Author Topic: Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card  (Read 6082 times)

omissis

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« on: February 27, 2005, 05:10:13 pm »
Hi

Maybe you would remember my feature request for a modified GUI with the ability for detuning each single voice card in multi but also in single mode.
Why not make the CS-80V able of TRANSPOSING and FINE TUNING EACH SINGLE VOICE CARD? It would make it able to obtain some complex tuned sounds and the ability of different beats for each card giving it THAT analog feeling we are expecting ( together with the freerun)
The GUI could be slightly modified making room to two more knobs and by getting rid of the useless fans!!
here's an example

[edit]

http://mio.discoremoto.virgilio.it/omissisfiles

What do you think??
Max

a CS-80Vist

bg

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 06:42:31 pm »
I like it.  I also agree with your other suggestion:

Quote from: "omissis"
Hi
I think the trimmers should have a maximum range of a quarter tone,unless people doesn't want to play with a completely out-of-tune CS-80V synthesizer ;-) !!


I'm not at the CS-80V now, but if I recall, using external MIDI CC's to control the Detune knobs is too coarse to be useful for voice card micro tuning.  Limiting the Detune range to a quarter-tone would facilitate micro tuning via MIDI, as well as make GUI mousing of these knobs easier.

bg

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 07:30:51 pm »
BTW, I experimented last night with multi mode voice microtuning.   I left voice 1 at zero, and detuned voices 2, 3, 4 progressively flat, and 5-8 progressively sharp.  I used the mouse for very small increments and used CSassign mode.  The effect was subtle, but noticeable, and it made the instrument sound more real IMO.  Playing polyphonically, you don't know which voices will be assigned to which notes, so some chords happen to sound more in tune than others.

Example:  Play a C major triad.  Let's assume CS-80V assigns voices 1, 2, 3.  Now play and hold a pedal tone and play the same C major triad again.  If the pedal tone is assigned, say, voice 1, then the triad might be assigned voices 2, 3, 4.  Although subtle, the tuning of the second triad differs from the first.

After fiddling with the detune knobs to set up a vintage CS-80 temperament, I unwittingly changed presets and lost all the microtuning.  Maybe there could be a way to recall Detune settings independently of a preset.

Updating CS-80V to allow microtuning of the two osc on each card, as Max has suggested, would be very analog indeed.

bg

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2005, 02:21:28 am »
Quote from: "bg"
I'm not at the CS-80V now, but if I recall, using external MIDI CC's to control the Detune knobs is too coarse to be useful for voice card micro tuning.  Limiting the Detune range to a quarter-tone would facilitate micro tuning via MIDI, as well as make GUI mousing of these knobs easier.


What I wrote is wrong.  I just checked, and the detune range and MIDI response are both good.  The entire range of the knob is not quite a half-step, which is adequate for micro-tuning the voices.  Also, Arturia put thought into how the knobs respond to MIDI.  On either side of 12:00 MIDI control is very fine.  As detuning increases MIDI control becomes coarser.  I apologize for the error.

omissis

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2005, 09:33:02 am »
Hi bg

Nice one :wink: ! I tried this immediatly after I received and ripped off the box my copy of CS-80V ! IMO there are some factors that give a definition of the core in CS80 emulation:

The Voice card tuning: even if you were a master at it you won't be able to keep all the cards perfectly in tune as the case suffered from internal thermical differences, so they never got  perfectly in tune.

The waveforms: some of them ,the saw first were very particular and btw intentionally crafted as they were, see
http://www.cs80.com/vco.html
 to get images and exact measures of them ( btw: GO XAVIER ,GO FOR IT!!  :wink: )

The filters: I think there is nothing to fix as the Arturia emulation captures the 99% of its sound ( less digital stepping please! )

The ring modulator : there the more fixing and changes have to be ,but I already posted this in the past.

So, about the microtuning: it's clear this can work only with a freerun option ( to hear the same damned beat at the same damned time slice isn't this feeling isn't it?? :evil:  :?: )....but I still wonder if could it be necessary to make this option as a separate page or include it in the Multi Panel..... should one be able to save the tuning as a separate thing and keeping it even after a file change or make it a part in a preset file, then allowing the saving of an even completely tuned-out CS-80V??

PS: Houston , do you still think this is a completely useless feature or am I still having a "Burger King" kinda feature request :wink: ???
Max

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bg

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2005, 08:10:32 pm »
In addition to Multi Mode voice microtuning, try these Modulation Matrix routings to simulate analog temperament:

Source: Keyb. Follow
Destination: Osc 2 Freq.
Amount: +/- .0010 (apply tiny amounts)

Source: Velocity
Destination: Osc 1 or 2 Freq.
Amount:  same +/-

Source: Aftertouch
Destination: Osc 1 or 2 Freq.
Amount: same +/-

The Keyb. Follow routing works well to simulate one Osc. not perfectly in scale with the other.  Using the Detune CH II slider, if you zero-beat the lowest note the highest note will beat (perhaps too much).  If you zero-beat the high note, the low note will have a slight roll.  Experiment to find the right in-between temperament.

Unlike the Keyb. Follow routing, which is constant, the Velocity and Aftertouch routings impose individual pitch imperfections depending how you press the keys--as though random.

Note:  Without a polyphonic aftertouch controller, the AT routing won't have a "random" effect.

omissis

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Voice transposing and fine tuning for each SINGLE voice card
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2005, 10:38:24 pm »
Hi bg
 
I tried also with

S---> LFO1
D---> Osc1 Freq
Amount : 0,001 or around that.

The "randomization" via Matrix is somehow useful but anyway you have to deal again with wave retriggering....what I mean is that you can approximate very shortly the behaviour of an IG chip based CS oscillator but you couldn't match it! Also I expect the Matrix would be a complementary "bonus" to the pack , given that the simple synthesizer behaves like the emulated model
That's why it's necessary to have an indipendent fine tune and transpose always at hand, and combine it then with the freerun: you could emulate a really unpredictable behaving and anyway you can always tune each voice card indipendently...then you always have aftertouch and the other sources free for using as you like it :wink: !
Max

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