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Author Topic: The Origin deserves cult status!  (Read 3719 times)

goldenanalog

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The Origin deserves cult status!
« on: July 14, 2016, 04:12:53 am »
First of all: Thank-you very much hermitnerd for posting a link to Glen Darcy's video - what he said about the Origin really got to me for a couple of reasons. 1st: The Origin's life cycle was ultimately based on a Tigersharc version (ADSP-TS201* - non "S" as labelled, correct?...and will the ADSP-TS203S* work as a 1-for-1 replacement...and do both DSP chips need to be exactly the same part? lol) -> which had reached it's EOL; as the story goes: Arturia bought up as many of these as they could to make as many Origins as they could, while keeping a measure of the chips in inventory to service Origins when they came back for that specific repair. Very interesting. And 2nd: Glen got rid of his (Alesis) Andromeda A6, partly because he never gelled with it; and partly because the Origin could cover all bases of the A6's sounds! Wow! That speaks volumes - what I had read several years ago -  and what had fueled my interest in the Origin in the first place - was the excessive amount of time that Arturia had spent programming the Origin's oscillator DSP to sound exactly right. Anyway: I (again) feel very fortunate to own one. My goal over the next year or so is to replace both the encoders AND the pots on my Origin with a better grade of part - I want it to outlive me! With some key part replacements, and perhaps a couple of extra power supplies, DSP chips, etc. in my personal inventory - maybe my long-term goal is obtainable!

Philipe: Is there any chance that you could continue to push for more sonic building blocks to be coded into the Origin? Would Arturia be kind enough to allow you to do that, from time to time? I, for one, have absolutely no plans whatsoever of getting rid of mine - and I'll bet that there are a few others here who feel the same way! 

Long Live The Origin! ;D

*Perhaps the Origin 2-Squared (suggested) should have 8(!) TigerSHARC chips on board instead of *only* (2) - as you *brilliant* French engineers know: Your chosen chip architecture supports such scaling! - C-mon, guys: Give modular synthesis a *REAL* run for it's money! ;D - GA   



Edited for clarity, completeness
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 04:34:38 am by goldenanalog »

hermitnerd

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 06:21:05 pm »

⛲ ♪ ♫ ♩ ♬ ツ :applause: ツ ♪ ♫ ♩ ♬ ⛲


Philippe

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 09:37:16 pm »
First of all: Thank-you very much hermitnerd for posting a link to Glen Darcy's video - what he said about the Origin really got to me for a couple of reasons. 1st: The Origin's life cycle was ultimately based on a Tigersharc version (ADSP-TS201* - non "S" as labelled, correct?...and will the ADSP-TS203S* work as a 1-for-1 replacement...and do both DSP chips need to be exactly the same part? lol) -> which had reached it's EOL; as the story goes: Arturia bought up as many of these as they could to make as many Origins as they could, while keeping a measure of the chips in inventory to service Origins when they came back for that specific repair.

Origin uses 2 TS203S TigerSHARC DSPs. TS202S and 201S versions are higher range with more internal fast memory and more fast links between processors. The TS203S embeds 128Kx32bits fast RAM while the TS202S embeds 3 times this amount, and the TS201S 6 times. At the time we started the Origin project we could get a TS203 for around 55$, the others were available at around 200$ and more. When they introduced this family of DSP, Analog Devices had the goal to take a major place in the telecommunication market. For some reason I’m not aware of, they failed. So they didn’t sell enough chips and raised the price of the TS203 to something around 180$. Recently they announced that the TS203/2/1S entered a “last time buy” state. Building new Origins with these prices would increase the public price of Origin by an amount of something between one 1000$ to 1500$ (depending on the total margin: ours, distributors, resellers). This would be a lot of money !!

So what we did is to build as much boards and Origin we could using our manufacturer stock. They will be used mainly as spare parts for the maintenance.

Philipe: Is there any chance that you could continue to push for more sonic building blocks to be coded into the Origin? Would Arturia be kind enough to allow you to do that, from time to time? I, for one, have absolutely no plans whatsoever of getting rid of mine - and I'll bet that there are a few others here who feel the same way! 

I’ve been pushing for that a long time. Arturia's management thinks that this is not a priority today.

*Perhaps the Origin 2-Squared (suggested) should have 8(!) TigerSHARC chips on board instead of *only* (2) - as you *brilliant* French engineers know: Your chosen chip architecture supports such scaling! - C-mon, guys: Give modular synthesis a *REAL* run for it's money! ;D - GA     

I’d love to see an Origin2. Due to the “last buy time” and the price of the TS20x it could not be built on that kind of processor.
Origin Lead  Developer

JacksonP

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 10:46:31 pm »
I am still very happy to own two Origins (while having some knob problems with one).

Still if someday Origin 2 comes available I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. The Origin concept is just marvellous and it deserves a second chance, don't you think?

goldenanalog

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2016, 03:13:47 am »

Origin uses 2 TS203S TigerSHARC DSPs. TS202S and 201S versions are higher range with more internal fast memory and more fast links between processors. The TS203S embeds 128Kx32bits fast RAM while the TS202S embeds 3 times this amount, and the TS201S 6 times. At the time we started the Origin project we could get a TS203 for around 55$, the others were available at around 200$ and more. When they introduced this family of DSP, Analog Devices had the goal to take a major place in the telecommunication market. For some reason I’m not aware of, they failed. So they didn’t sell enough chips and raised the price of the TS203 to something around 180$. Recently they announced that the TS203/2/1S entered a “last time buy” state. Building new Origins with these prices would increase the public price of Origin by an amount of something between one 1000$ to 1500$ (depending on the total margin: ours, distributors, resellers). This would be a lot of money !!

So what we did is to build as much boards and Origin we could using our manufacturer stock. They will be used mainly as spare parts for the maintenance.

IMHO: ~$55/each for that level of DSP chip? - I think that you guys did good! FWIW: Please pass that up the chain!

- And thanks for clarifying the exact chip # - now I know what to collect (ebay, etc.)

I’ve been pushing for that (ie - more sonic building blocks) a long time. Arturia's management thinks that this is not a priority today.

MANY MANY thanks for advocating on all of our behalfs, Philippe!

But perhaps as a matter of Company pride - in building an icon: Arturia's management might *still* want to consider adding 'module building blocks' to the Origin from time-to-time.

Hey: it's inarguable that just on looks alone: the Origin keyboard is truly unique - One-of-a-kind! 

I’d love to see an Origin2. Due to the “last buy time” and the price of the TS20x it could not be built on that kind of processor.

Well, we (collectively) can always dream, right?  ;D

- Let's see what the future brings - GA

goldenanalog

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 03:51:10 am »
Philippe - I should ask you this, if you wouldn't mind:

Besides the encoders and pots: What parts inside the Origin would you personally upgrade/replace - and what extra parts would you keep on hand?

- GA

Philippe

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 09:27:16 am »
Philippe - I should ask you this, if you wouldn't mind:

Besides the encoders and pots: What parts inside the Origin would you personally upgrade/replace - and what extra parts would you keep on hand?

- GA

Potentiometers, encoders that’s all.
Be very careful to connect the right power supply (6.5V/3.84Amp). Connecting an incorrect power supply will kill the main board.

Other main components cannot be upgraded without redesigning the electronic and they are not easy to replace (small CMS and BGA).
Origin Lead  Developer

synthguy99

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 09:45:39 pm »
Goodness, it's been a while, but life has been a rollercoaster.   :P

Spent two of those years recording and producing a couple of albums for a friend, and now I'm getting the urge to work on my own project.  And then out of nowhere, my brother who emigrated to Japan wants to work on music, something I pestered him about for years.  Oy.  He wants to work In The Box, as he has a nice arsenal of softsynths, which I don't fault anyone for liking.  In particular, Omnisphere which is a fantastic synth and gigasampler.  I love it dearly.  For the technoish pop rock he wants to do, it's more than capable.

But what I want to do is use Origin as much as I can.  It has no equal.  I say this as a guy who loves everything.  Dave Smith Prophet and OB-6, KORG Kronos, KingKORG, Radias, Roland Fantom, Jupiter-80, Integra, JD-XA, System-8, Yamaha Motif and Montage, John Bowen Solaris, Access Virus, anything Waldorf, anything Kurzweil, anything Moog, anything vintage, a whole slew of softsynths... if it synthesizes, I probably love it.

But the Origin is a true chameleon.  You don't need $6000-plus US to buy a Jupiter-8, you don't need $8000 on up to buy a CS-80 or Memorymoog, or multiple thousands for a Moog or Roland modular.  Having the Real Deal would be awesome, for certain, no contest.  But how many of us can afford all that?  And in a piece of music, who will be able to tell if you used a real Jupiter or Minimoog or CS-80?  I've created virtual ARP Chromas in the Origin that sound really good, a synth that is VERY hard to come by, and is often in need of maintenance.  And I don't mean an iffy knob or slider.  You can make a Moog 55 Modular or an ARP 2500 or a Roland System 700 and make them sound reasonably close, and save tens of thousands of dollars.  This synth literally is a hundred thousand dollar arsenal in one tidy off-white box.

This is a piece of music history, and very few people know it.
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

hermitnerd

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2017, 05:09:05 am »
Good to see you here again, synthguy. Do you have a SoundCloud page or something, where we can follow your musical projects?

I finally got the demo track for my "Dervish D" Origin multi done... https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/dervishd
4 years after first creating it, but better late than never.

Goodness, it's been a while, but life has been a rollercoaster.   :P

Spent two of those years recording and producing a couple of albums for a friend, and now I'm getting the urge to work on my own project.  And then out of nowhere, my brother who emigrated to Japan wants to work on music, something I pestered him about for years.  Oy.  He wants to work In The Box, as he has a nice arsenal of softsynths, which I don't fault anyone for liking.  In particular, Omnisphere which is a fantastic synth and gigasampler.  I love it dearly.  For the technoish pop rock he wants to do, it's more than capable.

But what I want to do is use Origin as much as I can.  It has no equal.  I say this as a guy who loves everything.  Dave Smith Prophet and OB-6, KORG Kronos, KingKORG, Radias, Roland Fantom, Jupiter-80, Integra, JD-XA, System-8, Yamaha Motif and Montage, John Bowen Solaris, Access Virus, anything Waldorf, anything Kurzweil, anything Moog, anything vintage, a whole slew of softsynths... if it synthesizes, I probably love it.

But the Origin is a true chameleon.  You don't need $6000-plus US to buy a Jupiter-8, you don't need $8000 on up to buy a CS-80 or Memorymoog, or multiple thousands for a Moog or Roland modular.  Having the Real Deal would be awesome, for certain, no contest.  But how many of us can afford all that?  And in a piece of music, who will be able to tell if you used a real Jupiter or Minimoog or CS-80?  I've created virtual ARP Chromas in the Origin that sound really good, a synth that is VERY hard to come by, and is often in need of maintenance.  And I don't mean an iffy knob or slider.  You can make a Moog 55 Modular or an ARP 2500 or a Roland System 700 and make them sound reasonably close, and save tens of thousands of dollars.  This synth literally is a hundred thousand dollar arsenal in one tidy off-white box.

This is a piece of music history, and very few people know it.

synthguy99

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 04:35:00 am »
I finally got the demo track for my "Dervish D" Origin multi done... https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/dervishd
4 years after first creating it, but better late than never.
That's a great rendition of "Dervish D" from Spiral.  It has been ages since I heard that, and had to dig it up to rediscover it all over again.  Lately, I've been listening to a lot of Eddie Jobson, particularly Theme Of Secrets, a new age album I can enjoy in a leisurely way.  I have to save his UK and Zinc stuff for when I have uninterrupted free time.  As much as I love so many keyboardists and synthesists who made their mark on the musical realm, I feel a particular kinship with that British whiz kid who stumbled into prominence taking on the keyboard helm with electric violin as his side arm, of Curved Air, Roxy Music, and going on to found one of the most influential and highly regarded prog rock groups of all time in UK - with all of two studio albums to leave their mark!  I'm hoping to find my footing this year among the greats of Eddie, Vangelis, Larry Fast, Tony Banks, Keith Emerson (RIP), Tony Hymas, Tomita (also RIP) and countless others.

I do have a SoundCloud account but nothing up there yet.  However, I finally have that music PC and DAW I've been needing forever.  It's about time I stopped being an itinerant engineer and had my own little recording corner.  Initially I think I'm going to do the "gearslutz" thing and post some demos and covers.  I'll be sure and let the class know who still linger here.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 04:36:33 am by synthguy99 »
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

emerson70

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2017, 09:07:04 am »
This is fantastic build apart from the Pots & Encoders ... I'm sure Arturia regrets the decision to use cheap pots.& encoders... for you guys who programmed this beauty, this must have sucked ...!... only for the synth to fall down with defective controls. As a 'performance synth' this was a huge mistake, and in many ways almost killed it off ?. I would happily replace all of the pots and encoders ....unless the Origin is improved... then would happily buy the new version ...
Especially if the Rack display enabled a legible routing of a particular module when clicked on.... that would be fab...Cheers

tertior

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 09:48:24 am »
great release of Dervish D Hermitnerd.  ;)

JonJohnson

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 08:46:40 am »
Picked up my first Origin keyboard last year. Fortunately in perfect working condition. Trying to keep it that way by using Panorama P1 Controller to limit amount of encoder twiddling I need to do. I can honestly say it is unique and brilliant. So much so I'm currently waiting for my second one to arrive any time now.  ;D

philw38

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 02:04:14 pm »
Hello everybody,

Let me introduce myself. I'm a retired engineer since a couple of months after 12 years and a half working for Arturia. I was hired by Arturia to work as the lead software developper of Origin. You likely know me on this forum as "Philippe". I must say the Origin experience has been the most demanding and gratifying of all my professional life. So I'm really pleased to see you guys expressing your positive opinions about the Origin synth. However I have a feeling of an unfinished work. There are objective reasons for that. Arturia's Origin was the first hardware project of this company. Origin would have been an extremely complex project even for an experienced company. So for the novices we were at that time it was a real epic adventure. The (not-fully-perfect) result is what you have in your hands now.

I don't know if Arturia will ever invests anymore on the Origin synth. I'd be glad if they do although I don't think it's likely to happen in the short term.

On my side I'm using my new free time to work on an old personal project targeted at maybe-non-keyboardist people (I'm myself a guitarist). Among other features this product should include a VA modular synth. For obvious legal reasons it cannot be an Origin2 synth. I want to do something a bit different, some sort of far cousin...

I wish you all the best with your Origin synthesisers.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 05:45:55 pm by philw38 »

DrJustice

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Re: The Origin deserves cult status!
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 11:03:13 pm »
Hi Philippe!

The Origin is a pretty monumental and impressive piece of work indeed. A completely different and so far unmatched synth - so glad that it happened! :)

 

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