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Author Topic: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?  (Read 2655 times)

Tausendberg

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Long story short I am using Modular V in Studio One and I am controlling one of the joystick controls using the MIDI CC helper. Specifically, one of my hardware controls is control linked to MIDI CC Helper 118 and the joystick control was assigned CC 118 using the midi learn feature. 

The problem is that since V Collection 5 came out, in contrast to V4, the MIDI CC Helpers seem to glitch out when the hardware control (in this case an expression pedal) changes too fast. It doesn't receive the control change message if the control happens too fast.

I checked in standalone and it doesn't have this problem so it only happen in studio one. The reason I don't contact Presonus is because this wasn't a problem in V4 and I can see from videos that Arturia uses Studio One so I'm asking if the problem is on their end.

FYI, I'm using the MIDI CC Helper because I want to use the MIDI Settings invert feature.

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 08:19:49 pm »
Hi Tausenberg,

I have'nt used it this way. But i have just tried it out in Studio One 3.

I understand you mean - Setting Modular V in MIDI learn mode, clicking (x-parameter) or shift clicking (Y-parameter) on a joystick and then move you pedal to assign it to the X or Y parameter.
If so, then i don't seem to have any issues. It looks like it work OK. How fast do you change? I have tried very fast - switch like. And what parameter do you control with the joystick/ pedal?
I can imagine your issue maybe can be about a mixture of multiple parameters you control with the joystick, and that this mixture has a balance that give this issue you have. But it still could be a fault if so.
You can post a preset with the issue i can have a look at, if you wish.

EDIT: BTW also remember you can invert the signal in Studio One Control Link and even adjust the curves when using mapped controls.
The pedal can also be mapped if you wan't to work with it this way.  The pedal can if mapped be used to control the macros in Studio Ones Control Link. That might inwoke working different, but it's possible. You can test it. EDIT end.


One thing i have noticed though is, that the Modular V joysticks Y parameter do not show in the Studio Ones direct control link display when using MIDI learn like this. The Joystick X do. That must be a bug/ fault.
Also the when assigning the joysticks Y parameter this way then it stays purple and do not change to red. This also must be a bug/ fault. But it works anyway.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 11:01:06 pm by LBH »

Tausendberg

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 12:32:43 pm »
Ok, so, I get it to work reliably in studio one 3 if I don't have the hardware control "captured" by Studio One. That way the midi CC goes straight through to the VSTi and it works.

But, have you tried assigning, for example, CC 30 to the portamento on/off switch, and then using Studio One's control link to connect one of your hardware switches to MIDI CC Helper 30 and seeing if that works fine?

On my end it doesn't and I'm just trying to figure out if other people have this problem or if it's something on my end only.

Thank you for the suggestion of the macros, I know about the macros but I prefer not to use them because I feel presonus could integrate them more seamlessly.

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 07:48:46 pm »
But, have you tried assigning, for example, CC 30 to the portamento on/off switch, and then using Studio One's control link to connect one of your hardware switches to MIDI CC Helper 30 and seeing if that works fine?

Can you please post some images on what exactly you mean by this?
How do you assign?
And how do you use MIDI CC helpers?


My controller possibilities is mapped for use with control link. But i can't see it should make any difference.
Do you say it do?
Also i can use Novation Automap and Automap MIDI to assign controls.

But i can tell, that i do have issues using Arturias normal MIDI learn function in Studio One.
I have also the same issue using normal MIDI learn in Native Instruments products in Studio One.

Also not many parameters is availble for my macro buttons in Studio one. My macro knobs and macro X/Y have all the possibilities it looks like. It's not good the parameters is not availble for the Macro buttons. Arturia you have to do something about this. I do have plug-ins where the macro buttons has the same parameters avaible as the macro knobs and the macro x/y pads. So it don't look like a Studio One issue.
The macros have possibilities that don't exist else like the opportunity to assign multiple parameters to one control, and the possibility to set polarity and curve for the individual parameter. So the parameters has to be availble.

I can get a CC control to work with a button on my controller to control the "glide" button on/ off on Modular V. I guess that's what you meant. In my case i used CC 31 as i had that set up on my controller. But it's the same as using CC 30.
In this case i assign my controller button using the Control link display using the "Arrow/ link button" between the selected parameter and selected control.

Because of the above mentioned missing parameters for my Control link macro buttons i can't assign a button for Glide on/ offthat way around. And that's bad. I can assign the Glide On/off (Or Portamento as it's called in the automation parameters) to a control link macro knob, and then assign a button on my cotroller to that macro, but that's a waste of macro control when parameters can't be used for them. Arturia please fix this.

I too is interested in hearing form others about MIDI learn in other DAW's. How do it work for you?

« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:22:48 pm by LBH »

Tausendberg

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 09:34:10 pm »
OH, ok, I think I see where we have a misunderstanding...

In the upper left hand corner, above the tracks and below the control link, click the 'i' to the left of the wrench or press F4.

Then, in the tab that has opened up there should be a selection for automation and parameter with the parameter being set to 'Display: Off'.

Click on the down arrow and then click on Add/Remove.

Then, in the popup that comes up, scroll all the way down and you'll see the MIDI CC Helpers. Add a couple and close the window.

Then click on the down arrow which you previously clicked Add/Remove and click on one of the MIDI CC Helpers. The MIDI CC Helper should appear in the control link parameter and can be assigned to a hardware control.

And so, the way it's supposed to work from that point on is that it's as if the VST was directly receiving a CC message except it's really glitchy. Can you verify?

I learned to use MIDI CC Helpers back in V Collection 4 where they could be used to access lots of functions that were MIDI Learn assignable but not assignable by the DAW directly. The system worked reliably back then.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:37:37 pm by Tausendberg »

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 10:12:20 pm »
Yes but how do you know "Glide"/ "Portamento" shall/ will react to a CC like CC30?
How do you assign that CC to in this case "Glide"/ "Portamento"?

Why use a MIDI CC helper? The parameter Portamento is availble for the macro knobs as i described.
EDIT: Removed something unneeded. EDIT end

-----

Is'nt MIDI CC helpers plain assignment of a certain CC number to a parameter that has the same CC number?
If not please explain.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 11:19:53 pm by LBH »

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 12:55:15 am »
Hi Tausenberg,

Perhaps i see what you mean now.
If i press the "Relative" button in Modulars "Glide" on then i apparantly can get it to work somehow. Looks like i suddenly can do something i couldnt earlier. (See Attachment. It's from my laptop. I have tested on my desktop being able to assign CC31 and using MIDI helper CC31.)

Don't know if thats the missing link you need. Hope so.
And sorry if i have misunderstoos you. I normally don't work this way.

EDIT: I would think this is only needed because the automation parameter is not availble for Control Links macro Buttons as it should. (I have created a thread about this in the forum.)
I assume you are using a macro knob for your CC MIDI helper? T believe the "Relative" is neede to be checked because a knob send many values and a button like the "glide" button don't use that. EDIT end
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:30:38 am by LBH »

Tausendberg

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 11:41:15 am »
Ah shoot, I think we have a misunderstanding. I'll try to include some images or something to make it more clear...

I'm not using macros and I want to use a hardware switch in order to get the switch to work.

To answer your earlier question, I pointed out elsewhere that the mixer controls are turned around, 1 is off and 0 is on and so when I press the button on my controllers the light indicators aren't synchronized because my controller will have an on light when it's off and vice versa.

I am trying to use the midi cc helper in order to use the midi inversing ability.

But honestly this is getting so convoluted that I feel like giving up and just waiting for them patch everything out.

I'm just annoyed because I had none of these problems in V4.

And for the record, I was only using the glide portamento as an example, I'm specifically after the joysticks, because I use those with MIDI Shaper, and the switches on the mixer.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 11:54:50 am by Tausendberg »

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 01:57:07 pm »
Yes images will help if you post some.

As said, then the "normal" MIDI learn don't seem to work correct inside Studio One. At least not consistently. It looks like it's the same with using MIDI CC Helpers.

Also if you for instance have a button like the "Link" buttons where my hardware controller buttons also like yours highlights when the GUI buttons don't and reverse because the Modulars Link buttons need to be fixed/ reversed to work correct by Arturia, then if you reverse the signal, then you still will not reverse the highligt. The highligts will still be unsyncronised.

I believe we have got the X/Y control covered earlier in this thread.

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 03:47:37 am »
Well - i can actually syncronize the value when using a knob, so it seems to be possible with a button too if you could assign a button. But automation parameters including MIDI CC Helpers is'nt availble for buttons. And the normal MIDI learn don't work.

I can only assign a CC in standalone mode. And that assigment apparantly is in the VST too to reach with a automation parameter including a MIDI CC helper. But i can't MIDI learn in Studio One. And just using my mapped controller using the same CC don't work. I have to assign it using control link. And i can using a macro knob.
If i assign a hardware button to control  that macro knob it suddenly don't work if a MIDI CC Helper parameter is assigned to the macro knob. Don't know why.

However if i use the automation parameter "Link x on" to a macro knob (instead of a MIDI CC Helper) and reverse the polarity, and then assign a hardware control button to control the macro knob, then all works including the highligt sync it looks like. But as said sometimes things seems only to work sometimes. Perhaps this too, even if this should work.

I guees much of the issues has to do with the same reason why that the automation parameters is not availble for Control Links buttons.

I have also contacted Presonus about the issues with assigments. It's a VST issue, but perhaps Presonus can create a workaround that can help.

EDIT: The problem using macros is there is only 8 knobs. That's why you need the MIDI learn to work. So it would be good if it did. If it's A Arturia/ VST issue that MIDI learn don't work inside Studio One, then i would like to get it fixed. In this case by Arturia.
Can you change the polarity of your hardware controls inside your controller? EDIT END

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 01:55:21 pm by LBH »

LBH

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Re: Anyone else having trouble with the MIDI CC Helpers in Studio One?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 07:33:20 pm »
I have been given this link in Studio Ones forum: http://daw.one/control-automation-and-midi-with-one-device/
Perhaps you can use the info too.

My MIDI learn issue using the VSTs dialog boxes seems as suspected to have something to do with if the controllers controls is mapped for Studio Ones Control Link or not.
I will have to check it out to be sure.
My controls are mapped now. That might have caused some differences in our testing.

EDIT: I can apparantly get the "Normal" Midi learn to work with my NI VST's now.
But still not with Arturias. It looks like there is a bug with Arturias MIDI learn function or whatever is causing it. If anyone don't have issues with the arturia MIDI learn using Arturias MIDI learn Dialog box inside your DAW, then please tell. EDIT end.

EDIT2: After further testing with SEM, ARP and Modular it looks like the issue has to do with assigning hardware buttons to a control. Knobs work. So look like it has to do with the same issue that there are no automation parameters availble for Studio Ones Macro Buttons.Definetely look like it's a plug-in/ automation parameter issue. So please fix this Arturia. EDIT2 end.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 09:53:10 pm by LBH »

 

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