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Author Topic: Leslie Stereo Width  (Read 1853 times)

CC4

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Leslie Stereo Width
« on: May 28, 2016, 07:41:16 pm »
Is the Leslie Stereo Width working properly?  As a VST inside FL Studio, I have it set to 100%.  I can visually see on the meters the fluctuations on the right speaker, but it doesn't seem to be doing much of anything to the left side.  It doesn't sound "wider" but more off-center.  Eh?

CC4

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2016, 10:03:44 pm »
...Hmm.  Okay, actually when the Balance is at lower percentages the Leslie Stereo Width sounds okay when the the Swell Pedal is at lower percentages.  But the Stereo Wideth doesn't work as well wen the Swell Pedal is at higher percentages and the Balance is low.  Anyone else see/hear what I'm talking about?  And when the Balance is set closer to 100%, the Stereo Width doesn't seem to do anything at all.  Is this the expected behavior?  Seems messed up.

LBH

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 11:19:03 pm »
Too me it sounds like things are centret or mono when the leslie is off and when leslie is on but stopped.

The leslie horn do respond to the stereo width but only to 50% left and right.
The leslie drum do not seem to be affected by the stereo width more than perhaps a very small amount.

The balance between the leslie drum and horn is with the drum to the right and horn to the left.

To me there is not that much stereo width when the balance is centret. And quickly it seems to me stereo width is lost when moving the balance towards the drum.

To me the swell do not seem to change this pattern. I can be wrong.

I don't find the stereo width consisting in the whole tone range. It's like some notes has less width than others in a way i don't find logical.
I agree something seems messed up.

The question is if it's all supposed to work like this?

I can add that also in Piano V i find the possible stereo width too small. Could be about the same sort of coding.

All about stereo width could be a unwanted behavior.

I would like a wider stereo width to be possible.
There is not to much "swirl" as it is.

I like the sounding of B-3 as it sound different from my other organs. More soft.


CC4

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 04:53:34 pm »
As a beta tester this is one of those instances where I scratch my head.  I tried it again with a few of my own patches that are completely dry and the Stereo Width seems to be working correctly at least on the horn side.  There is no Stereo Width when the balance is turned towards the drum side and so with that I begin to wonder if it's one of those "accurate recreation" type of things where it's supposed to behave that way.  On the drum side the sound just fluctuates equally on both channels and doesn't pan back and forth.  But on the horn side, the sound was equally swirling between the left and right speakers plus it didn't matter where the Swell Pedal was set.  I was certain that it was only affecting the right side yesterday though.  It's not hard to look at a meter.  So then I begin to wonder what one little thing was different?

Then I start messing with it some more.... I try a few different patches.  I flip around the Leslie Brake, the Speed Setting, the Leslie State switch, and the Model switch.  The the problem reappears exactly as I described.  With the Swell Pedal at 100%, the Balance to the left, and the Stereo Width to the right then the sound is swirling out to the right speaker and then just back to the center.  Nothing on the left.

I'm going to figure this out.

CC4

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 05:48:31 pm »
I don't find the stereo width consisting in the whole tone range. It's like some notes has less width than others in a way i don't find logical.

I think that's it (which makes it a bit complicated).

The best way to see/hear it is to take a dry patch, have the Leslie on and running, Slow Speed, take the Swell Pedal to 100%, the Balance at 0%, Stereo Width to 100%, eliminate the drawbar leakeage, and push in all the drawbars.  I experimented with the upper keyboard and drawbars.  It seems heavier on the right with higher frequencies.  I've attached a preset example.








LBH

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 07:26:14 pm »
I have been making a new test too.

Today things actually changed when the swell past around 20 db. Then the right channel suddenly did go up more than 10 db than the left channel. And there was'nt much movement in the left channel if any at all.
There are some nasty peaks and things are very uneven so to speak (- also when balanced all the way to the horns).
So yes there seems to be somehing messed up.
There seems to be diffences when playing single notes or chords and as said where on the keyboard range the notes are being played.
And it looks like the fault varies.

I have also just tried one drawbar at a time. It looks like some drawbars sometimes don't have any leslie swirl at all. The swirl varies a lot. In my test especially on the upper drawbars, but also on the lower.
I used a dry pad with leakage off ...

Something is wrong.

LBH

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 11:05:12 pm »
Got an idea and pulled up my phase meter. Things sometimes go out of phase when using the Leslie.  It's the horns.
Perhaps B-3V is having phase issues too. Not sure. Don't know if a real Leslie do this.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:17:33 pm by LBH »

jackn2mpu

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 03:04:04 pm »
Got an idea and pulled up my phase meter. Things sometimes go out of phase when using the Leslie.  It's the horns.
Perhaps B-3V is having phase issues too. Not sure. Don't know if a real Leslie do this.
Certain parts of the Leslie sound are due to phasing but not like is being described here. I wonder if Arturia modeled the horns with both having output? By that I mean a real-world Leslie has two horns but only one outputs any sound; the other is blocked and is only there to provide balance for the rotor assembly. Depending on the vintage Leslie being modeled the upper and lower assemblies could spin in the same direction or opposite directions. That change happened when they went from using one motor to dual stacked motor assemblies and the space issues inside the cabinet that resulted from that change. It is possible in a real-world Leslie to make them spin in the same directions by disassembling the motor and changing things around.

I've been inside many a Leslie cabinet back in the day and it's amazing what one can customize these things to do.

The above being said I never use the Arturia Leslie but the one from PSP (L'Otary). Way better and way more adjustable.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 03:08:57 pm by jackn2mpu »
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Germain.arturia

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 11:58:48 am »
Hi everyone, sorry for the delay,
thanks a lot for all precise explanations, and preset attached. I can now investigate further one this one.
looking at the VU meters in FL studio i can confirm what has been said . here are the steps i followed

-loaded the "organ classic" preset
- set upper drawbars at max, deactivated phaser, drawbar leakage
- had my leslie on , running slow.
- set balance on left, stereo width at max, horn/drum accel at max( no relevant here), slow/fast speed at max.

when the swell pedal is below 30% , stereo width works as expected. Even if , but maybe you should have noticed, left and right output are not exactly equal. depending if you play and keep a low or high note
but if the swell pedal is above 30 % , difference between L/R output starts to increase.

Now for the strange part : if swell pedal is at max , left output will never get above -10db, when right output can easily go to 0db and above,especially when i play a cluster.
If then i push leslie balance to the right(drum), L/R outputs never go up to -9db, and vumeters are acting like if we were on mono.

I'll check with my dev colleagues right now!

Best,


CC4

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 04:12:01 am »
Glad it's being checked into!

LBH

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Re: Leslie Stereo Width
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 11:55:32 pm »
Glad it's being checked into!

Me too  :)

 

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