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Author Topic: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes  (Read 2762 times)

890zx

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Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« on: May 24, 2016, 09:35:36 pm »
Where is the setup of the  MIDI Program Changes for building Sound Maps? >:( ??? ??? >:(

If they are no more, how do you suppose that it is possible to automate the Program Changes in a standard and compatible form?

Is there no more the possibility of to build sound banks with Program Changes assigned? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

If Steinberg took the absurd and idiot decision of to remove part of the MIDI protocol of their VST3 plugins design, it is much more idiot and stupid that the rest of the developers follow them in that ridiculous decision.

We expect that this decision will be reverted sooner by Arturia following the STANDARDS that everybody use.

Also , It is ridiculous to take decisions of this type in base at the opinion of focus groups composed by teenagers that are at the begining of their careers and cant evaluate properly the benefits of complex (and not so much) technological features. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Koshdukai

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 11:59:41 pm »
I'm able to use program changes on Playlists.

Have you tried it? Just make a Playlist with the presets you need to go through with PrgChg and select it :)

MR79

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 07:04:33 pm »
Hi,
Thanks for the info!
But I cannot create playlist.... There is a bug.... When I name the playlist, it does not appear correcly.... I have 0 - as name...... And I cannot drag any preset....  ???
Have you any idea to solve that bug? Is it a known issue??
Thanks

Koshdukai

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2016, 02:44:19 am »
Hi,
Thanks for the info!
But I cannot create playlist.... There is a bug.... When I name the playlist, it does not appear correcly.... I have 0 - as name...... And I cannot drag any preset....  ???
Have you any idea to solve that bug? Is it a known issue??
Thanks
hmmm... that is strange. It's working on my Windows 7 and Windows 10 systems either as Standalone or Ableton Live 9.x and 8.x 32bit and 64bit.

Does it happen on all instruments? As Standalone or on a DAW? Which DAW and OS are you using? These kind of info helps to narrow down the issue, when it doesn't happen to others.

890zx

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 02:52:22 am »
Dear Mr Koshdukai:

A playlist is nothing that you can call or insert from a standard MIDI sequence.

Only banks with a MIDI Program Change associated to each program is useful for total recall automation.

Things like Native Instruments browser or Steinberg Expression Maps are only private protocols NON standard and for this reason useless for standard automation.

There is a worlwide recognized organization called Midi Manufacturers Association (www.midi.org) that many years ago has set the standards to follow for this purpose.

Koshdukai

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 03:07:32 am »
A playlist is nothing that you can call or insert from a standard MIDI sequence.

Only banks with a MIDI Program Change associated to each program is useful for total recall automation.
If you're not taking advantage of the DAWs own total recall, then yes, I agree, if you're planning to use more than 128 presets on a set/gig and need a more agile way to access them (i.e. select the right Playlist).

So, I guess one could suggest Arturia to add Bank LSB+MSB support for Playlist selection and that would turn VC5 "Playlists" fully compatible with the Bank+PrgChg pair.

890zx

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 05:42:58 am »
Mr Koshdukai:

Please think a minute, in a live gig its logic to have a direct access to some basic controls like the cutoff of the filter, the resonance, the attack of the envelopes, etc.... I understand this.

This point of view applies more to simple synthesizer designs like a Minimoog, but I am talking about the ultra complex designs like the Matrix 12, the Modular or the Synclavier that are nor conceived for an instant approach programming.

The complexity of the architecture of this designs force to spend hours or most times days in the develope of quality programs.

But well,....if you use a Matrix 12 like a Minimoog, forgetting all the modulation devices and the matrix itself, you are loosing your time, better leave all the advanced designs and get a real Minimoog clone and be happy moving pots and pushing buttons.

In complex synthesizers to have "total recall" is a must, like also it is to have a complete System Exclusive implementation for realtime reprograming.

Ending, I understand that what I'm proposing is going against the current and never my point of view would be considered by any marketing study.

But the designs of the real Synclavier, the real Modular Moog and the real Matrix 12 probably would never get the approval of the marketing management today, due its concepts simply are oriented to a small elite.

Now there is a real contradiction by Arturia: Create elite products that require deep knowledge and skills for a proper use and at the same time pretend that focus groups of teenagers beginners opine on them properly.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:08:35 am by 890zx »

Koshdukai

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Re: Arturia V ver 5 and MIDI Program Changes
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 12:05:57 pm »
Mr Koshdukai:

Please think a minute, in a live gig its logic to have a direct access to some basic controls like the cutoff of the filter, the resonance, the attack of the envelopes, etc.... I understand this.

This point of view applies more to simple synthesizer designs like a Minimoog, but I am talking about the ultra complex designs like the Matrix 12, the Modular or the Synclavier that are nor conceived for an instant approach programming.

The complexity of the architecture of this designs force to spend hours or most times days in the develope of quality programs.

But well,....if you use a Matrix 12 like a Minimoog, forgetting all the modulation devices and the matrix itself, you are loosing your time, better leave all the advanced designs and get a real Minimoog clone and be happy moving pots and pushing buttons.

In complex synthesizers to have "total recall" is a must, like also it is to have a complete System Exclusive implementation for realtime reprograming.

Ending, I understand that what I'm proposing is going against the current and never my point of view would be considered by any marketing study.

But the designs of the real Synclavier, the real Modular Moog and the real Matrix 12 probably would never get the approval of the marketing management today, due its concepts simply are oriented to a small elite.

Now there is a real contradiction by Arturia: Create elite products that require deep knowledge and skills for a proper use and at the same time pretend that focus groups of teenagers beginners opine on them properly.

Are we still talking about Bank+Program Changes? Or are you now talking about parameter MIDI mapping? Because that exists too in all Arturia soft-instruments.

Traditionally and maybe as a way to cut on development (and testing) costs and due to the VST inherited automation capabilities, SysEx isn't usually added as the most critical feature to be supported on a software instrument. SysEx was/is important on hardware since that's really the best low-level generic way to access most if not all of its parameters. VSTs use a different way to expose their "internals" to their hosts/DAWs so SysEx has no real use, unless you're trying to do a perfect 1:1 100% emulation of an hardware device for... scientific purposes or research, which obviously none of the Arturia virtual instruments are. These are playable, tweakable emulations that try to capture the essence of the originals and extend them in musical/playable ways... at least, that's how I see them (obvious personal opinion, not based on any "official" Arturia comment, so I could be wrong).

So, besides the lack of Bank Change on some of the instruments, what is really and specifically (non generic) issue with what Arturia instruments regarding MIDI standards ? Because now I'm really curious which of the existing MIDI mappable parameters aren't you able to control through MIDI and why would you need SysEx to control a VST when VSTs have already their own parameter exposing API, because that's how DAWs automate them.

Are you trying to use soft-instruments as standalone virtual hardware replacements, without a DAW ? Even so, MIDI Mapping might prove enough(?) remote access to the instrument parameters (granted, not all, in some cases).

 

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