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Author Topic: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?  (Read 2501 times)

looneytunes

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This request has been made multiple times before, and it is an inconsistency in behavior across all Arturia plugs.

This becomes especially apparent in Analog Lab, when you layer multiple plugs - some that support infinite sustain (on CC 64), and some that do not.

I am requesting this as a usability request, because there is no other reasonable option for pedal sustain. Mapping Max release time to CC  only yields sustains for the extent of the release (usually about 4 seconds).

Why does Arturia resist implementing this?

Thanks,
Kevin L

I realize that the original machines had no sustain pedal input (but did have pedal inputs)

However .... In a live context, as a multi-keyboardist who is often tasked to play multiple parts, having an infinite sustain (eg. hold peak while sustain pedal (cc64) is down) becomes crucial.

Other plugs, like the Prophet V handle this with a preference (located in the about box).
It would be great if this were a standard across all of the Arturia plugs.  Inconsistent behavior also becomes noticeable in combinations of instruments (eg. in Analog Lab) with some instruments not respecting sustain.

For me, I can not use Matrix 12V live without growing another arm!

Thanks for listening!
Kevin L

jmcecil

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 12:29:10 am »
Yep, all soft synths should support standard MIDI sustain. 
cpu:i7 980x - RAM:12gb -  OS:Win8x64 - Interface:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 -  MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru -
Host: Cubase 6.5/7 x64 | Reaper 4.5 x64 |Wavelab 8 x64 - Arturia Stuff: V Collection | Spark | Keylab 61

ben arturia

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.......testing.......

looneytunes

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 09:17:20 pm »
Sorry, no - that really doesn't help me.

It is obvious that Arturia didn't make the effort to support sustain of any kind on some instruments (eg. Solina, CS-80) where the original instrument did not have that support.  This has been inconsistent with other Arturia plugins that do support sustain.

The article above describes how to emulate sustain on Arturia instruments where sustain was not implemented.  I and others have stated that an emulation (ie. using Midi-learn to trigger a finite release time) of ADSR 'hold' on sustain-pedal is not usable or sufficient. 

A usability request has been made to support Midi sustain on Arturia products consistently.  Myself and others have made this request multiple times across multiple revisions of Arturia products.   

I find it disappointing when Arturia does a major release like V5 to unify (across all Arturia instruments) the interface, preset-handling, and midi-control,  yet again ignores important consistency/usability requests like midi-sustain.

Sincerely,
Kevin L


jmcecil

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 09:23:09 pm »
Amen
cpu:i7 980x - RAM:12gb -  OS:Win8x64 - Interface:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 -  MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru -
Host: Cubase 6.5/7 x64 | Reaper 4.5 x64 |Wavelab 8 x64 - Arturia Stuff: V Collection | Spark | Keylab 61

Zip oLeighter

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 08:24:04 pm »
I'll add my amen here as well.  I love the products.  So with love I say that there is sometimes too much adherence to "tradition" or "the original didn't have" .
This is evident here, and in another of my great pet peeves, the lack of a tuning knob on the Wurlitzer (don't yet know if it was added in Wirli V2, I sure hope so).
THe Wurli engine totally supports it, as evidenced by the fact that the PITCH BEND WHEEL (which the original sure didn't have) works.  I also found that in my DAW it exposes the tuning parameter and it works exactly as I would wish, but I still can't tune the standalone version ONLY because there is no control for it in the UI.

It seems that some classic designs/features can be changed or added to to take advantage of virtual technology, and others are not.

So I am in favor of a checkable parameter on all VSTs that do not have a classical implementation of sustain.  When checked this means that:
Organs behave as though you are holding any key that is played.  Percussive stops are not affected.
Synths ideally would get two choices:
Hold Note (which amounts to the same as above, and means do not start the release portion of envelopes until sustain is released)
or
Sustain Release, which would need a second release control in the UI that would be used when the pedal is down and the note is released.  Releasing the pedal would switch to the normal Release value.  (It would probably make sense to have the Sustain Release value simply add to the Release value, as there is little reason to allow a shorter sustain release, but then maybe not, I can imagine it might be interesting when stacking multiple instruments to have a synth sound that was shorter when the piano was sustaining, and then a longer release when not... ;D )

<EDIT- The following was ill considered on my part, in respect to the original poster's observation that this is especially an issue in Analog Lab, where not everyone can edit the modulation routings:
// Matrix 12 might be an exception to this, I THINK that you can do anything you set your mind to by programming the pedal to the right modulation destination(s)... the example in the article referenced above gets you piano like sustain but you can get infinite hold by using other methods.// >
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:19:35 am by Zip oLeighter »

Edouard_Arturia

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 10:52:27 am »
Hi guys.

I've registered your messages as customer complaints.

It will give more weight to this feature request for future updates.

Best

Edouard
Edouard Arturia

jeffbart

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 07:54:58 am »
Sustain via CC46 is implemented on CS80 v2, and *should* be working in V3 though it's a known bug.

For mini, modular, 2600 I am fine to have the sustain on CC64 act as it does now - just as if I had kept my fingers on the notes.
It can be infinite ('Hold'). I gather it just keeps ADSR at the sustain level until the pedal is released

For Matrix 12, and CS80, it's not infinite sustain, and I gather it's implemented via a very long sustain time instead, rather than 'hold'  - so perhaps you could make the last value of the sustain parameter as 'HLD' ?





« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 01:21:29 pm by jeffbart »
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looneytunes

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 08:25:10 pm »
Thank you Arturia for the first implementation of CC 64 (midi sustain) support.

It makes a big difference for usability.

Best,
Kevin L

Fletcher94

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Re: Why does Arturia resist supporting standard Midi sustain on CC 64?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 10:54:20 pm »
Hi everybody ,

sorry to get late  on the subject
But i.m still experiencing no sustain support
On imini when it works fine on iSem !
Does it mean the pbm was fixed on vst but not on imini ios ?

Cheers

Yann

 

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