April 17, 2021, 06:11:47 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email
News:

Arturia Forums



Author Topic: Sound quality vs original  (Read 6159 times)

sbDigisound

  • Apprentice
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 7
Sound quality vs original
« on: May 20, 2016, 09:24:47 pm »


Anybody got any opinions on the sound quality of the new version compared to the original SEM vst ?
I am struggling to replicate particular tones with exact settings.
Is it using the same engine or a rework / upgrade.

The GUI is a big improvement tho.

CC4

  • Beta-testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 18
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 01:06:57 am »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

artao

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: 2
    • Voxonitus Soundcloud
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 04:52:39 am »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\
This space left intentionally blank.

sbDigisound

  • Apprentice
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 7
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 11:36:51 am »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\

Yep, definitely not happening - presets incompatible between versions. A conversion utility rumoured...

CC4

  • Beta-testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 18
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 04:27:43 pm »
I'm not certain about the entire collection, but most of the V5 Collection does not seem to support old presets.  For instance, Oberheim SEM V imports/exports .obsx files while SEM V2 imports/exports .semx files.  I'm certain they had to do that for some reason.  A conversion utility certainly would be handy though.

I'm noticing certain knob numerical readouts don't correspond between the V4 version and V5 version, like the Portamento and Decay knobs.

jackn2mpu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: -2
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 09:13:11 pm »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\
Sound map is missing? Is this across the board on all synths?
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Proud NRA Life member

artao

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: 2
    • Voxonitus Soundcloud
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2016, 07:15:46 am »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\
Sound map is missing? Is this across the board on all synths?

Yes. The Sound Map has been removed from all the synths that had it. Real dick move there, and utterly inexplicable.
And regarding preset compatibility ...
They damn well BETTER make a converter, and FAST!!! This is a HUGE freakin issue, and Arturia REALLY dropped the ball here. I'm sure this will make many many people more than a little angry.
And if they can make a converter, then why couldn't they just do it within the new synths in the first place?
Preset backwards compatibility seems to be an afterthought to them here. Who the HELL thought people wouldn't want to transfer their old custom made presets on which they spent hours upon hours upon hours making and tweaking? THAT person should be fired. Terrible decision. I don't care if it IS a new engine. Backward compatibility for the presets is ESSENTIAL!!!
This space left intentionally blank.

jackn2mpu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: -2
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2016, 01:17:00 pm »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\
Sound map is missing? Is this across the board on all synths?

Yes. The Sound Map has been removed from all the synths that had it. Real dick move there, and utterly inexplicable.
And regarding preset compatibility ...
They damn well BETTER make a converter, and FAST!!! This is a HUGE freakin issue, and Arturia REALLY dropped the ball here. I'm sure this will make many many people more than a little angry.
And if they can make a converter, then why couldn't they just do it within the new synths in the first place?
Preset backwards compatibility seems to be an afterthought to them here. Who the HELL thought people wouldn't want to transfer their old custom made presets on which they spent hours upon hours upon hours making and tweaking? THAT person should be fired. Terrible decision. I don't care if it IS a new engine. Backward compatibility for the presets is ESSENTIAL!!!
Arturia really screwed the pooch with this 'upgrade'. 5 new instruments with only one or two that are at all usable (Synclavier and Farfisa) and they mucked up the existing ones without so much as a thought to those of us with a lot of work done in the now 'legacy' product.

I wonder of the VC5 collection can co-exist with existing VC4 stuff or does it overwrite the older stuff? I understand the VC5 demo can co-exist but I'm talking about the paid-for upgrade. At least I have two boot partitions and can put the VC5 collection on one and leave the VC4 collection untouched on the other (I actually have VC4 on both partitions).
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Proud NRA Life member

sbDigisound

  • Apprentice
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 7
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2016, 02:12:15 pm »
Well, the V5 video says "new sound engines."

I'm recreating some of my own old SEM V4 presets and the one problem I am currently noticing is that while the VCF Mode knob visually snaps from Low-pass to Band-pass mode, the Low-pass mode itself doesn't seem to kick in until the knob is rotated to the .088 position.

Wait wait wait wait wait ....
Why are you re-creating your old SEM V4 presets. You can't just load them up into the new version?
I've been told, by someone who worked on presets for the new Jup-8, that this is supported.
Now, if you're telling me the new V5 synths WON'T support the V4 presets .. well ..... along with removing the Sound Map, this would be THE deal breaker. I spent many many hours designing my own sounds. If those aren't transferable to the new V5 synths, then Arturia has done f***ed up in a SERIOUS way.
VERY not cool, if that's the case.  :-\
Sound map is missing? Is this across the board on all synths?

Yes. The Sound Map has been removed from all the synths that had it. Real dick move there, and utterly inexplicable.
And regarding preset compatibility ...
They damn well BETTER make a converter, and FAST!!! This is a HUGE freakin issue, and Arturia REALLY dropped the ball here. I'm sure this will make many many people more than a little angry.
And if they can make a converter, then why couldn't they just do it within the new synths in the first place?
Preset backwards compatibility seems to be an afterthought to them here. Who the HELL thought people wouldn't want to transfer their old custom made presets on which they spent hours upon hours upon hours making and tweaking? THAT person should be fired. Terrible decision. I don't care if it IS a new engine. Backward compatibility for the presets is ESSENTIAL!!!
Arturia really screwed the pooch with this 'upgrade'. 5 new instruments with only one or two that are at all usable (Synclavier and Farfisa) and they mucked up the existing ones without so much as a thought to those of us with a lot of work done in the now 'legacy' product.

I wonder of the VC5 collection can co-exist with existing VC4 stuff or does it overwrite the older stuff? I understand the VC5 demo can co-exist but I'm talking about the paid-for upgrade. At least I have two boot partitions and can put the VC5 collection on one and leave the VC4 collection untouched on the other (I actually have VC4 on both partitions).


V4 and v5 (upgrade) coexist. Just dont share presets. And that is mighty inconvenient.
I am not entirely convinced about the engine upgrade either -  I am struggling to reproduce  some SEM filter tone that I preferred in V4.

jackn2mpu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: -2
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2016, 02:45:31 pm »
V4 and v5 (upgrade) coexist. Just dont share presets. And that is mighty inconvenient.
I am not entirely convinced about the engine upgrade either -  I am struggling to reproduce  some SEM filter tone that I preferred in V4.
The VC5 upgrade doesn't overwrite the existing VC4 install? I'm talking the full/paid-for upgrade and not the free VC5 demo. That's good because when I try and open existing projects that already have Arturia synths whether they have custom patches or not I don't need surprises. IIRC I think some of those existing projects have custom patches saved inside the daw in use at the time and not the synth itself (my error when I hit the wrong save option)
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Proud NRA Life member

sbDigisound

  • Apprentice
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 7
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2016, 06:12:05 pm »
V4 and v5 (upgrade) coexist. Just dont share presets. And that is mighty inconvenient.
I am not entirely convinced about the engine upgrade either -  I am struggling to reproduce  some SEM filter tone that I preferred in V4.
The VC5 upgrade doesn't overwrite the existing VC4 install? I'm talking the full/paid-for upgrade and not the free VC5 demo. That's good because when I try and open existing projects that already have Arturia synths whether they have custom patches or not I don't need surprises. IIRC I think some of those existing projects have custom patches saved inside the daw in use at the time and not the synth itself (my error when I hit the wrong save option)

Nope, def not. I have both new V5 (not demo) and old V4 VSTs available on the desktop and in DAW.
Just not quite convinced of the sound quality of V5....

jackn2mpu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: -2
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2016, 10:46:57 pm »
V4 and v5 (upgrade) coexist. Just dont share presets. And that is mighty inconvenient.
I am not entirely convinced about the engine upgrade either -  I am struggling to reproduce  some SEM filter tone that I preferred in V4.
The VC5 upgrade doesn't overwrite the existing VC4 install? I'm talking the full/paid-for upgrade and not the free VC5 demo. That's good because when I try and open existing projects that already have Arturia synths whether they have custom patches or not I don't need surprises. IIRC I think some of those existing projects have custom patches saved inside the daw in use at the time and not the synth itself (my error when I hit the wrong save option)

Nope, def not. I have both new V5 (not demo) and old V4 VSTs available on the desktop and in DAW.
Just not quite convinced of the sound quality of V5....
You and me both, at least working with what's inside Analog Laboratory 2. Some sounds sound different and I can't quite put my ear on what's what but I do know there are level differences between the two and some of the newer patches seem to have fx on them the originals don't have. I put up the same patch in both the original standalone Sem and the newer one in AL2 and in many cases they're close but not identical. Ditto for the Matrix 12.
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Proud NRA Life member

jackn2mpu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
  • Karma: -2
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2016, 12:41:46 pm »
There is help on the way for a patch converter but it looks like it won't be for months and considering Arturia's past performance not until 2017. See this page: https://www.arturia.com/faq/utilization/2016-mid-may-major-update-%E2%80%93-factory-user-presets-compatibility
Got wind of this through another forum I belong to (and no it's not Gearslutz).
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Proud NRA Life member

sbDigisound

  • Apprentice
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 7
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 03:01:34 pm »
Yeah, I am not holding my breath....

However in my case I can work round the compatibility if it were possible to manually match presets , laborious as it is, and the result were to sound at least as good ( - al little subjective that...) between the older and new versions. I cant get quite the same tone from the SEM filter despite (numeric) matched settings and that is a disappointment.
If anybody at Arturia is interested I will send an old & new version that should as far as I can see sound identical - but dont. 

Having paid for the upgrade I wish now I had more thoroughly comparatively tested the new VST.

CC4

  • Beta-testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 18
Re: Sound quality vs original
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2016, 05:33:47 pm »
Have you matched old and new factory presets?  To me, they sound they same.  I've been unable to recreate my old ones accurately though.  Some lack a certain punch and I'm finding it's because the knob positions don't completely correspond to the older version.

 

Carbonate design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2019, Simple Machines