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Author Topic: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …  (Read 3537 times)

DBS

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new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« on: November 06, 2015, 09:21:23 am »
The new NKS standard for MASCHINE and KOMPLETE KONTROL is fine … but still not all parameters are (or can be) mapped. E.g. oscillator wave shape, VCO PW Mode, VCO MOD Select, Envelope keyboard follow, Arpeggio Range, the whole pitchbend section etc.

This circumstance makes it useless for me. I don’t use prefabricated presets and fiddle only filter and envelope.  :(
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vanheckis

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 12:28:53 pm »
I agree,

I was really looking forward to the NKS implementation in Maschine and although it is a step in the right direction it is also a missed opportunity,

Why is it not possible to use the rotary knobs to make on/off choices and why is not everything mapped?

Just like the Arturia controllers for Analogue lab/Laboratory etc.. this remains a 'most used parameters' mapping only. Why not taken this opportunity to map ALL knobs,sliders forlet's say a JV8, the moog modular, the CS80?


 


DBS

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 12:39:26 pm »
I've found this thread from December 2013 …

http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=3576.msg115477#msg115477

There is also a statement from Arturia:
Quote
All Arturia plug-ins are not fully automated
The update is planned fr the next summer...

Apparently not.  :(
iMac (Late 2013) 3,5 GHz Intel Core i7
OS X 10.11.x
NI Maschine 2.4.x
Logic Pro X 10.2.0
UA Apollo Twin
MOTU 828 Mk3 Hybrid
MOTU 828 Mk2

DBS

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 12:50:50 pm »
Just like the Arturia controllers for Analogue lab/Laboratory etc.. this remains a 'most used parameters' mapping only. Why not taken this opportunity to map ALL knobs,sliders forlet's say a JV8, the moog modular, the CS80?

Yes! It is sad.

I think most users are happy to choose one of the standard presets and fiddle only on filter or envelope … there are no big ambitions to going deeper into sound design.  :-X
iMac (Late 2013) 3,5 GHz Intel Core i7
OS X 10.11.x
NI Maschine 2.4.x
Logic Pro X 10.2.0
UA Apollo Twin
MOTU 828 Mk3 Hybrid
MOTU 828 Mk2

LBH

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 04:05:12 pm »
Can't you assign a CC control to a parameter including the wave select, and then automate using that CC number in your DAW?
Seems to work here. Also if  using JP8V thru Komplete Kontrol plug-in. I don't use Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I believe you can create your own maps.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 04:34:07 pm by LBH »

DBS

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 08:37:22 am »
Can't you assign a CC control to a parameter including the wave select, and then automate using that CC number in your DAW?
Seems to work here. Also if  using JP8V thru Komplete Kontrol plug-in. I don't use Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I believe you can create your own maps.


This works for MIDI Controller and DAWs like Logic Pro X etc. but sadly not for NI MASCHINE or Komplete Kontrol.
iMac (Late 2013) 3,5 GHz Intel Core i7
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LBH

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 07:19:31 pm »
Can't you assign a CC control to a parameter including the wave select, and then automate using that CC number in your DAW?
Seems to work here. Also if  using JP8V thru Komplete Kontrol plug-in. I don't use Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I believe you can create your own maps.


This works for MIDI Controller and DAWs like Logic Pro X etc. but sadly not for NI MASCHINE or Komplete Kontrol.

I do think Komplete Komtrol most of all looks like a preset browser where some selected parameters is mapped.
But are you sure?
Don't it work using NI Controller Editor either? You can assign CC and create templates in there i believe. It's for both Machine and Komplete Kontrol keyboards.  If it's not working for third party applikations, then it's a NI problem.

If CC assignment don't work some way with Komplete Kontrol and Machine, then it's a major problem and a deal breaker, as NI's own applikations and controlling of for instance Reaktor ensembles - as far as i know - depend on it. It's not a Arturia issue even if more mapped parameters in automation, automap and NKS map could be good and wanted.

As far as i know, then all NKS have selected parameters pre-mapped. Usually it's the most common performance parmeters. Many applikations beside Reaktor have a huge amount of parameters including NI's own synths and samplers. I doubt NI's own applications are all fully NKS mapped. Not even all parameters are availble for CC automation.
To be able to use CC numbers are in many cases essentiel.

Try searching the web for Komplete Kontrol and Control Editor.

I can also suggest you try NI Komplete Kontrol forum. Perhaps there are more info there, as i believe others have the same troubles you have.

I believe you can find some good informations in NI support/ web knowleadge base. And you can also contact NI support.

Hope this will help you find a solution.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 07:22:01 pm by LBH »

DBS

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 08:46:34 am »
Big thanks LBH for your great participation and assistance!!

Of course you can blame NI about the missing MIDI CC function but it is not the concept of Maschine. Maschine is not only a MIDI controller for a DAW (of course you can use it). So it use only plug-in parameters for some good reason. NI Maschine software maps automatically all Plug-In parameters to your knobs on your Maschine hardware/software if you load a Plug-In. It picks out all the internal Plug-In parameters immediately.

If the Plug-In developer has done his job well (which is the case for all my other plugins) it works out of the box. You also can arrange knob position and delete knobs and add knobs etc. Yes the maximum on the Maschine controller is 16 pages a 8 knobs … means 128 parameters but you can decide which parameters you want to have if the Plug-In uses more than 128 parameters (e.g. Reaktor).

BTW … You can map CC on Maschine knobs. But only if the desired parameter is available as a plug-in parameter. If there is no plug-in parameter there is no chance to map a CC. But this feature is also more for the use of an external controller.

From a developer’s perspective, I see no sense to skip some Plug-In parameters and some not. I’m glad that all my other Plug-Ins does not have these inconsistencies.

So my christmas wish is peace in the world and plug-in parameters  ;)

Have some nice holidays!
iMac (Late 2013) 3,5 GHz Intel Core i7
OS X 10.11.x
NI Maschine 2.4.x
Logic Pro X 10.2.0
UA Apollo Twin
MOTU 828 Mk3 Hybrid
MOTU 828 Mk2

LBH

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Re: new NI NKS support – Not all parameters are mapped …
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 05:29:29 pm »
Big thanks LBH for your great participation and assistance!!

Of course you can blame NI about the missing MIDI CC function but it is not the concept of Maschine. Maschine is not only a MIDI controller for a DAW (of course you can use it). So it use only plug-in parameters for some good reason. NI Maschine software maps automatically all Plug-In parameters to your knobs on your Maschine hardware/software if you load a Plug-In. It picks out all the internal Plug-In parameters immediately.

If the Plug-In developer has done his job well (which is the case for all my other plugins) it works out of the box. You also can arrange knob position and delete knobs and add knobs etc. Yes the maximum on the Maschine controller is 16 pages a 8 knobs … means 128 parameters but you can decide which parameters you want to have if the Plug-In uses more than 128 parameters (e.g. Reaktor).

BTW … You can map CC on Maschine knobs. But only if the desired parameter is available as a plug-in parameter. If there is no plug-in parameter there is no chance to map a CC. But this feature is also more for the use of an external controller.

From a developer’s perspective, I see no sense to skip some Plug-In parameters and some not. I’m glad that all my other Plug-Ins does not have these inconsistencies.

So my christmas wish is peace in the world and plug-in parameters  ;)

Have some nice holidays!


Glad if i helped.

Great if you have found a solution your satisfied with.

If we talk about waveform selection, then this seems to be something that mostly is missing for parameter automation. Some even can't use MIDI CC learn.

Can you for instance choose waveforms in your NKS setup, for NI's Massive, Absynth and FM8 synths - or turn the OSC's on and off - even using MIDI CC learn for all those parameters?
Do you have any synth where this is possible as a premade NKS parameter for instance? How many can do it using MIDI CC learn? Just curious.

Could be nice if the parameters was mapped. At least i can use MIDI CC on Jupiter wave selector for instance. But not on the NI synths. Hope it will be mapped on all plug-ins. Not all parameters are pre made for Automap either.

Happy Holliday to you too.

 

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