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Author Topic: One Man Band  (Read 1093 times)

VoxFisa333

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One Man Band
« on: January 23, 2022, 11:59:24 pm »
For some time, I have suggested one of the softweare itmes that Arturia might put out is an "arranger" keyboard, like the Casio CT or W K's, Yamana Genos or GEM Ensemble   These marvels include Drumkits, 16 track MIDI sequencedfs, varios "styles" of auto-acompaniment, some of which enable you to create your own auto0accompaniment

The notion of a "one man band" goes back to the 19th century and maybe further, and has included some pretty Rube Goldberg rigs: Some of which actually worked. Then in the heyday of the analog electronic organ, rhythm boxes and pre-made auto-accompaniments became a reality. The computer revolution gave use realistic drumkits and auto-accompaniments

Well, it appears that someone has come up with full-bore arranger software This is a thing that Arturia may wish to work with, in terms of some mechanism by which to use V collection instruments, Analog Lab and especially the KeyLab controller Keyboards I would suggest using the Spark drum macchine for the drums as that has just about everything in the world

https://www.1manband.nl/omb/

MajorFubar

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2022, 08:55:55 am »
Welcome.

The closest thing they ever made was the Origin keyboard
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VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2022, 08:01:08 pm »
That was before I got here (as ClydeLyman and ClydeLymanAgain, both of which disappeared in separate accidents). This thing works with software synthesizers ad hardware units Can you imagine wiat a V Collection could make that thing do? Especially with the Fairlight and Synclavier

The typical arranger KB is a lot of a little, usually lacking a full-trick synth, instead using samples without full synthisis control, but having tons of effects and 16 or even 32 track squenceing as well as a few dozen or hundred pre-defined "styles" and other things in a keyboard with a processor and some memory. I've been mulling over what you could do if you started with a full-on computer and a controller keyboard, instead of being an instrument with a computer in it, a computer based instrument or set of instruments with a full tank of memory Instead of topping out at about 1200 sounds, how about 12 or 24 THOUSAND all different and with a lot more controls than the typical keyboard  due to the plethoria of controls on a KeyLab since it all works via MIDI Put all the brains in a touchscreen laptop yoga'ed to tablet and set on the music stand. TAke that sucka out on stage and Holy mola; ayatollah!

Back about 16 years ago I met a couple who did a stage act at the Williamsburg Western Film convention He did guitar and vocals and she did keys and vocals, we started talking shop and I learned that their rig cost $56,000 Their act was very full-sounding. Now, you could probably do it for under $4.000. With the built-in instruments, V Collection, Syntroik, Sforzando sfz/SoundFont player and the OMB will play some VSTi live of which you can gets scads from places like vstplanet, you could probably conquer the Galaxy
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 01:03:24 pm by VoxFisa333 »

MajorFubar

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2022, 02:38:23 pm »
Back in the mid noughties when DAWs started to become popular with home musicians, I never could figure out why a software company like Propellerhead, who market a complete DAW and virtual synth solution called Reason, didn't partner-up with a hardware manufacturer to put Reason in a keyboard with a fold-up laptop-sized LCD display. Think something along the lines of the Arturia Origin Keyboard, but with that whole fold-up section being an LCD screen connected to a built-in computer running Windows Embedded which automatically launched into Reason at power-up.

At that time, Reason was a walled environment. You couldn't use external virtual instruments or effects, only the ones included with the software. But to be fair, they were hugely capable virtual instruments and effects, by contemporary standards, as was the built-in multitrack recording functionality based around a ProTools-style interface of midi tracks and automation lanes, and the 'studio-rack' where you 'mounted' and 'wired up' all the virtual gear included with Reason: synths, drum machines, samplers, EQ's, compressors, reverb units, tape delays, modulation units; everything you needed. It was the ideal candidate to be OEM'd into a 49-key or 61-key workstation form-factor with a built-in display. Include a DAC, a CD burner, and some basic mappable physical controls within the same-form factor, and what you would have had is an all-in-one studio-in-a-box. In terms of flexibility, it would have absolutely wiped the floor with any of the workstation / arranger keyboards made by the likes of Korg and Yamaha at the time. Nothing could have touched it.

Yet, it seems I was the only person with that idea. Just me. Just a lowly nobody who didn't have the technical abilities nor resources to make it happen. Bizarre.
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VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2022, 12:59:33 pm »
You were not the only one And before that, in 1968, when I was teaching myslef FORTRAN IV from a probrammed learning guide, back in the days of the Hollerith card, I realized a number of things 1 many cards were spoiled by mis-types. 2 we had closed-circuit TV, we had the teletype which could turn pulses into letters that could be read and we had electronic memory Why not outit keypunch machines with these, then let the operator see what was being input and edit that before it went to the keypunch mechanism? I was considered a mad visionary. A year later, DARPA would build the internet, 10 years later someone would strap a TV to a computer and throw memory chips in the thing Now, I am no ohger avisioary And I was only looking to visualize one function

I don't think we had things miniatureized to the point where we could put them all in one keyboard In what looks like the mid-noughts, Generalmusic put out the Ensamble which had a hard drive and some RAM but even that one has its limitation, and the small one, 61 keys, sold for over 3,000. The arranger Keyboard aslo has "styles", Personally, I would find 61 keybs, with one octive for playing chords fort auto accompaniment a bit cramped I would probably want to use a 61 not KB for play and a 25 not KB for comping or bass. The idea with the arranger KB is to make a computerized instrument I want to start with a computer, then put the rest in. Also, I don't know if the laptops didn't have the oomf until the teens. Could a 2009 laptop accommodate V Collection 8, IK Syntronik, Sforzando SFZ/SF2 player and all I can cram into it, or the like, and 200 VSTi and about 125 VST effects? and iven the mid-teen laptops didn't have the SSD's or SD cards we have now. I would not start with anything less than a 512 SS and a tenth gen core i7 for that kind of thing, Don't forget, I'm talking about playing live as well as recording
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 01:05:41 pm by VoxFisa333 »

MajorFubar

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2022, 02:43:19 pm »
Hardware manufacturers are slow to adapt to change.

Yamaha are great examples. They are likely the leading makers of electronic pianos in the world. Yet even their top of the range electronic pianos are basically still just a computer playing a sample library from some kind of onboard storage, same as they have been for over 30 years. Elsewhere in the industry, you can see the likes of Arturia (Piano V) and Modartt (Pianoteq) have moved over to physical modelling. Physical modelling is more processor intensive than sample playback, but is hugely more versatile and doesn't require gigabytes and gigabytes of storage devoted to samples. Not wanting to p*ss on Arturia's cake especially on their own forum, but Modartt's physical modelling of pianos is so good it has been endorsed by (most of) the real instruments' manufacturers*, so it's not as though it's a really embryonic technology that isn't as competitive in terms of authenticity.

With physical modelling, you can change variables on the fly like mic position, lid position, cabinet structure, hammer noise, tuning, and so on, all of which on sample-based pianos would each require their own banks of samples, so the flexibility is often very limited compared to modelling. With modelling it's possible also to have the software react to advanced pedalling techniques that just aren't possible to emulate with sampled pianos.

In 2018 I emailed Yamaha to ask why were they not pursuing this exciting new avenue [of physical modelling]. But of course emails like that never reach their R&D people, they just go straight into the trash.

*Kawai and Yamaha being the exceptions, because it would tread on the toes of their own software solutions, which unsurprisingly, are sample-based, still.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 03:57:16 pm by MajorFubar »
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DrJustice

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2022, 04:49:42 pm »
You were not the only one And before that, in 1968, when I was teaching myslef FORTRAN IV from a probrammed learning guide, back in the days of the Hollerith card, I realized a number of things 1 many cards were spoiled by mis-types. 2 we had closed-circuit TV, we had the teletype which could turn pulses into letters that could be read and we had electronic memory Why not outit keypunch machines with these, then let the operator see what was being input and edit that before it went to the keypunch mechanism? I was considered a mad visionary. A year later, DARPA would build the internet, 10 years later someone would strap a TV to a computer and throw memory chips in the thing Now, I am no ohger avisioary And I was only looking to visualize one function
...

A bit off topic - I just wanted to say thank you for that anecdote! I love little bits of computer history like that. And also thank you for making me not feeling that old after all  ;D

VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2022, 12:52:33 pm »
You were not the only one And before that, in 1968, when I was teaching myslef FORTRAN IV from a probrammed learning guide, back in the days of the Hollerith card, I realized a number of things 1 many cards were spoiled by mis-types. 2 we had closed-circuit TV, we had the teletype which could turn pulses into letters that could be read and we had electronic memory Why not outit keypunch machines with these, then let the operator see what was being input and edit that before it went to the keypunch mechanism? I was considered a mad visionary. A year later, DARPA would build the internet, 10 years later someone would strap a TV to a computer and throw memory chips in the thing Now, I am no ohger avisioary And I was only looking to visualize one function
...

A bit off topic - I just wanted to say thank you for that anecdote! I love little bits of computer history like that. And also thank you for making me not feeling that old after all  ;D

I remember many tings. IN the summer of '65, I was at the University of Rhode Island and saw a printout of a music program. It must have been 1,000 linwa R LWar. Ir qA 4 pages of print. At that time, every parameter had to be entered in on either cards or tape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwdtdGV7wOU
I remeber when FORTRAN was released in either late 1956 or 1957
I ecall when computers were called "electronic brains" in the very early 1950's
Even in the '80's, what we now take for granted, VST, DAW's and virtual instruments that could prduce even the rudiments of what the origina hardware units sounded like, were a creature of science fiction. I wonder what William Ryker, seen in an episode of STAR TREK playing a keyboard instrument of some kind: I understand there are MIDI controllers made after Mr. Spock's Vucan zither; I'd LOVE to get my greedy little mudhooks on THAT.TNG would make of a fully functioning laptop, V Collection 3 and a full-trick KeyLabe 88

DrJustice

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2022, 01:41:33 pm »
Yeah, the beginnings of computers is a fascinating era. And of course, it's equally fascinating to see the progress and the point we're at- although I don't think we've seen anything yet - will we get quantum computing in out wrist watches, or in a tiny implant connecting to our nervous system, and so on...

I started out with my first job as a programmer/technician/salesperson for microcomputers in 1981, or was it 1982... I missed out on the truly fascinating pioneering period, so I'm grateful for the stories from those who were there to experience it.

A bit off topic this, but what the heck :P

VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2022, 02:45:49 am »
Looks like we're going to be "off topic" (not really: this is supposed to be about "computer music": Well, that's two things; "computer" and "musicd"). You were in the pioneering era. Here are somethings to YouTube up. 8'bit guy, 8-bit keys and Retro Recipes (run by the fellow who played Gavin Sykes in THE PHANTOM MENACE) which looks at the Commodore line of the late '70's and early '80's Also you can google up things like TRS-80 emulators and C64 emulators. You can also get some of the top calculator emulators. Things really changed when they dropped that first phone handset on an acoustic coupler those decades ago. In fact, I do not regard what we use on the 'net as computers per se; more like fully computerized communications consoles. I've seen programs for the TRS-80 that played tunes using the sound chip in it and Commodore or one of them had a music keyboard that played music live. And who would ot like to get Arturia to build a standalone SID chip emulator with a keyboard. Somewhere I have or saw a VST double Sid chip (6 voices instead or 3)player. 8-bit Keys looks at the early digital keyboard instruments. You can also YouTube up some of the early machines, like the TRS=80 Model I or some of the others and you' get plenty of videos. One of the great things about microcomputers was the immediate screen feedback plus you didn't have to worry about dropping a box of prepared Hollerith cards and having to play 520 pickkup IN SEQUENCE in COBOL. In the mid-'80's software packages came with pre-programmed trig functions so that you could do a scientific program in COBOL. You would have to express DOUBLEPRECISION as pic is 9V99999999999999

As I said before the computer music program I saw in '65 was at least 4 pages. I would hate to have to read a printout for something like the Arturia CS-80 or the Prophets, as they say "miles and miles of code". Within reach I have several dozen times more memory than  was in the world in '75. Every now and thine, my toungue slips and I refer to 16 gig of RAM as "16K". My buddy and I nearly drooled an ociean when we sae the first machine with a full meg of RAM. I almost fipped out when I used the SQ-80 floppy drive. THAT was a wow. In the sci-fi comic books of the '50's and '60's, like MYSTERY IN SPACE, SPACE WAR and SPACE ADVENTURES, the spacemen carried 3 pieces of equipment. a calculator, a communicator and a tablet and stylus. Each was a box about 6"x3"x1". We put that all in one 'box" about 4-1/2"x2"x.3" plus a camera and position indicator. And the communicator is the dreaded videophone. I'm all in on this. This is my hunk of the thirtieth century (look up SPACE PATROL)

DrJustice

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2022, 10:19:38 am »
The first computers I was exposed to as a kid was Norsk Data machines sometime in the 70s, most likely it was Nord 10, where I got to play Adventure (the original) and Moon Lander, on a text terminal at my dad's workplace. The first programming I did was on a Commodore Pet. Our school had some of those and offered a class. The teacher knew very little about them, so we were pretty much on our own. That was the best of times!

Yes, the 8 bit era of the 80s had its own adventures to offer. The first computer I had that could be said to have music capabilities was the Acorn BBC with its SN76489 sound chip. There were 3 square wave voices and a noise generator, and one of the first things I did was to modify its RS-423 port to MIDI. A one man band right there, if you were so inclined :D It later got the Music 500 external synthesizer module - a real 16 voice multitimbral synthesizer. You could get a keyboard for it too. I so wanted one, but couldn't afford it at the time. Here's a demo video of it.

And look where we are now! You get teraflop CPUs in laptops with practically limitless memory and storage for the tasks at hand, with software that wasn't even a dream back in the day - electronic music solo acts today are the most rad one man bands ever :)

VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2022, 06:10:52 pm »
I have a Casio WK3500 with 450 sounds; actuall about 150 with different versions run through different effects setups. I also have Audacity and a couple of full on DAW's like Cakewalk and Tracktion 5 thru 7 So I can sample the hell out of the Casio, as well as my Casio CZ-1000, Moog Opus 3 and Sequential Circuts Pro-ONe, all as WAV 16-bit 44k files. Then run them from the Emulator II

MajorFubar

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2022, 11:09:26 am »
You sound like an ideal person to show us your workspace, which is a sticky-thread I set up a few weeks ago to try to generate some collective community spirit among the regulars here, to combat the tide of one-time posters who join to only ask one question then leave or have a moan and leave. So far only the good Dr and i have posted. I'd love to see your studio in there.
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VoxFisa333

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Re: One Man Band
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2022, 04:48:13 pm »
I don't have it set up yet It will be mostly a computer and some keyboards both controllers and some hardware devices. It will have to wait until I net my next computer, since this one is 5 years old and my next one will be bigger and better. And my apartment is too small to set upa proper workspace since my basement is prone to flooding and the landlord doesn't give a rat's ass. To do the kinds of things I want to prepare for this, I have to use folding tables

Here's a trick with the Moog Opus 3. Go to the Organ section and set the sliders in the shape of a sawtooth with the 16' being at the highest. Set Tone all the way up. Go to the Strings: 8+4, Lowpass, CF=100% and EMPH at about 40%. Chorus to Fast. Mix the Organ about 1/3 into the Strings section. Set articulation to taste. That was my signature sound on the Opus 3

 

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