March 28, 2024, 09:21:47 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register
News:

Arturia Forums



Author Topic: Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect  (Read 1128 times)

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.920
  • Karma: 261
Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect
« on: August 07, 2021, 08:53:08 pm »
Pigments Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter has a defect curve for the low frequencies.
Version 3.1.0.1552
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 09:56:27 pm by LBH »

Matthieu_Arturia

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 170
  • Karma: 10810
Re: Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2021, 10:57:36 am »
Hey LBH !
what do you mean by defect curve exactly?
I've compared the behavior of the filter BP24 and HP12 in Pigments, with the Matrix 12 and also the Matrix filter.
They both sound pretty similar.
I guess you are wondering why the bass is very low when using those filters?
I can only say that it sound the same than on the M12.
Hope that answer your question.
If not, feel free to give me more info on that.
Cheers!
QA Technician

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.920
  • Karma: 261
Re: Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2021, 09:22:50 pm »
Hi Matthieu,

Actually i also think something strange is going on in Matrix 12 V.

To describe what i mean, then try this example in Pigments.
1. Select New Preset - and change the waveform to a SAW.
2. Set the Cutoff to max.
3. Select Matrix BP12, play a note and listen to the sound.
4. Now change the filter to Matrix BP24. I would exspect the low frequencies would be more filtered out, but actually the opposite happens. You get more low end.
You can also watch this in the curve graphic. While the BP12 allways go down in both ends of the curve, then the BP24 does not.

If you do the same and compare with the multimode filters behavior, then the exspected happens for the multimode filters.

I don't say the filters shall sound the same, but i would believe more poles should cutoff more frequencies and do it with a steeper curve/ slope. This is actually also what you hear and see for the high frequencies, if you in the above example set the cutoff to min and mid instead of max.


As you mention Matrix 12 V, then you can try the same, but also try this example:
1. Select New Preset.
2. Select HP 1 pole, HP 2 pole, and HP 3 pole after eachother, while playing a note. Exspected behavior is HP 1 pole let most low end frequencies pass though, HP 2 pole less, and HP 3 pole the smallest amount of low end frequencies, just like the direction you can exsperience using Pigments Multimode filter HP filters. But actually the opposite happens with Matrix filters.

If you in Matrix 12 V switch between the 2 BP filters while the cutoff is at max, then you also hear the BP12 is thinner in the sound than the BP24. I exspect it to be the other way around, just like it is, when you do the same with Pigments multimode BP filters.
However, if you set the cutoff to let say 31, then it sound more like exspected.

In generel i find it strange that the Matrix HP and HP filters for the low frequencies have a opposite behavior than i exspect.

In Matrix 12 V also please test the HP 3 pole filter. The behaviors with cutoff values from around 90 and up is to me very strange.

In Matrix 12 V i also don't understand why the 2 High 1 Low sound sound thinner than the 3 High 1 Low filter. Try a cutoff setting at 63. But perhaps that can be about how excactly this filters are made and how to understand them, as i guess it does'nt have to be 2 and 3 pole filters in this case. But the 3HIgh1Low filter also have the strange behavior when cutoff is set to high values (from around 80 and up but try yourself) as i described above for the 3 pole HP.

I don't have a hardware Matrix 12 V.
I know different filters have different behaviors. I would exspect that as that's a part of the different filter sounds. But the above examples behaviors puzzles me, as the behaviors is unexspected and opposite somehow for low frequencies.

Is all this normal behaviors of original hardware Matrix 12 filters?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 09:50:58 pm by LBH »

Matthieu_Arturia

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 170
  • Karma: 10810
Re: Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2021, 01:01:19 pm »
Hi LBH
Indeed there is a weird behavior on the HP 3 poles just below maximum.
I think this one could be a bug.
For the others, i'm pretty sure the Matrix 12 HW behaves like this, so it could be by design.
Anyway, i've logged all that has been said, and i'll come back to you when i have more info on this topic.
Wishing you all well!
Cheers!
QA Technician

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4.920
  • Karma: 261
Re: Bug report: Matrix 12 BP24 and HP12 filter curve is defect
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2021, 05:35:22 pm »
Hi Matthieu,

Thanks for your reply.

I came across this video: Oberheim Matrix-12 Synthesizer Demo #6 15 Filter Types: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuBRcBlNAH8
I think this confirm what you write,  - including the "Boost" to be a bug.

Seeing past the "boost", then apparantly the odd design must be a part  of the Matrix 12 sound.

Wish you well too.
Cheers!

 

Carbonate design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2019, Simple Machines