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Author Topic: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well  (Read 938 times)

LucianB

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Newbie here. ✌️Has anyone managed to make a soft sweeping pad on MB? Just asking as I find the attack sliders in the amp section just doesn't allow me to do so. Even when pushing the attack all the way back, when I strike a note it still comes in strong and doesn't fade in slowly as I have experienced on my other synth. Am I doing something wrong or is something broken? You advice will be greatly appreciated.

DrJustice

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2021, 05:32:46 pm »
You can use feedback modulation to shape the envelope segments.

Have a look here.

LucianB

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2021, 08:27:00 pm »
Amazing thank you so much for this. However, I am still quite new to the synth world and especially Arturia's synths. Would you be able to guide me in a bit of practical manner how to approach that in MB?

Thx

aWc

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    • aWc
Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2021, 08:54:02 pm »
when I strike a note it still comes in strong and doesn't fade in slowly as I have experienced on my other synth. Am I doing something wrong or is something broken? You advice will be greatly appreciated.
Make sure to adjust the Velo/VCF  and Velo/VCA correctly for what you are looking for, i.e, if you want the swell to be independent from velocity, turn the sliders all the way down.

LucianB

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2021, 09:13:01 pm »
Thanks, yeah I have tried doing that in so many different instances. I guess what I hoped would have been possible is to get a long slow swell as one would with say the Model D. But it just doesnt seem to be possible. In most of the pads and presets it seems to have little effect it being all the way up or down. If i strike the next key, it still just hammers in. Is that how the MB is built? To just be a music station and not really ambience/pad like swells, suitable for say scoring of films?

Thx

standingwave

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2021, 09:20:07 pm »
It sounds like you have the release stage turned up and not allowing it to complete. Try allowing the envelope to complete before initiating the cycle again.
 It is a mono synth, that means it can only have 1 voice playing at a time, no overlapping.
 Good luck!

LucianB

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2021, 10:19:31 pm »
It sounds like you have the release stage turned up and not allowing it to complete. Try allowing the envelope to complete before initiating the cycle again.
 It is a mono synth, that means it can only have 1 voice playing at a time, no overlapping.
 Good luck!

Thanks for all the input from everyone, but as you mentioned about it being monosynth, I hear you, but I was able to have soft, slow attack on my Model D, which is also mono, but still even when it doesnt finish, the next note shouldnt be triggered immediately, right? Perhaps it is just the way the architecture is with the brutes?


standingwave

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2021, 01:14:38 am »
That's correct, the envelope does not reset at zero. It will pick up right where release left it off. For that matter, it will pick up wherever any other modulation has it at that time.
 I would suggest, use the release slider as a performance controller and pull it up when you want a longer release.
 Cheers

DrJustice

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 01:34:00 pm »
...
Would you be able to guide me in a bit of practical manner how to approach that in MB?
Sure. It will not help if your issue is indeed that the envelope starts at its current level when triggered.

However, it does allow you to change the shape of the envelope segments, so here's how to do it for the VCA Envelope Attack as an example:

- In the mod matrix, assign the VCA Envelope attack segment to a custom mod destination => hold the round button above column 13 and then move the ENV 2 Attack slider.
- In the mod matrix, connect the ENV 2 source (row 2) to the ENV 2 Attack destination (column 13).
- Use the Amount knob to control the feedback, you can see in the linked article in my previous posting how positive or negative mod amounts changes the shape of the attack segment. When you apply varying feedback, the attack time changes, so you have to adjust both Attack and the feedback mod Amount to find the ideal time and shape.

standingwave

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2021, 03:14:59 pm »
 Once you get your head into the way modulation works within the Matrixbrute, there really isn't anything else exactly like it. There are quirks though.
 Regarding your question, re: suitable for scoring a film: Yes  it is very suitable, I'm taking a break from scoring one with my Matrixbrute as a voice right now.

 I make some videos from time to time to help show some of the Matrixbrute's abilities.
 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmFO7-T4byHKcAzO3C_9TFCLDteUs5aMa

  Have fun!!

Processaurus

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2021, 10:38:11 am »
Just spitballing here but could you modulate the release time to be zero, from the gate signal of the next note? That way the volume resets to zero when the next note starts. Or would it be too late?

On monosynth pad-like sounds, sometimes it helps to use the glide, so that the transition between note pitches doesn’t click, which can be especially pronounced when adding delay or reverb.

standingwave

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2021, 03:40:10 pm »
That's actually an interesting idea Processaurus. Although, I'm not sure to implement that... I'm going to try a few things now.

 After some thought, I did realize: Env3 does reset when a delay is active. If you assign Env3 to the filter you want to swell, add a bit of Env3 delay and...boom. a resetting envelope.

 Cheers.

Processaurus

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2021, 09:05:15 pm »

 After some thought, I did realize: Env3 does reset when a delay is active.


Good discovery. I tried it and it works, I could get a resetting slow attack amp envelope with slow release- the method was to assign ENV3 in the matrix to 99% modulate the VCA destination. I had to put ENV2 to have fast attack, decay doesn’t matter, max sustain, and long release. ENV3, like you said, has to have a smidge of envelope delay to trigger the envelope to reset to zero on each note, regardless of whether it completed the previous release.

It sounds musical. It has its own peculiarity of abruptly cutting off the tail of the previous note, which also sends a little transient/pop into the ambience effects. Just musing but it might not be a bad scheme for a synth to default to, for “retrig” behavior, as you could stop the envelope from resetting by using “legato”. There is some vaguery around what the filter and mod envelopes should do, there could easily be situations where people didn’t want those resetting.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 09:07:30 pm by Processaurus »

DrJustice

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2021, 09:24:22 pm »
Additional tip if you want to use ENV 3 to control the VCA: use max positive feedback on ENV 2 Attack to let the ENV 3 shape get cleanly through, also maximum Release for the same reason (can use feedback there too, to keep the ENV 2 release maximally open for the ENV 3 release shape to come cleanly through).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 01:25:07 pm by DrJustice »

LucianB

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Re: Soft PAD possible on MB? Attack sliders don't seem to work well
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2021, 12:16:52 pm »
I can not express my gratitude enough to everyone who shared their knowledge freely on this post! I'm taking a break from work soon to just delve deep into the MB world and will try all your advice soon! Will keep you posted! Thank you all once again! 🙏☮️

 

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