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Author Topic: MatrixBrute Trade in credit  (Read 2155 times)

DrJustice

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2020, 03:38:19 pm »
Then even worse, because if the designer team did NOT look at all the discussions around the MxB issues and did not incorporate at least SOME points it would've been totally silly. But i think, they had a good look at those discussions. And that way
i understood the thread starter.  So, it could be, you got her/him wrong quite a bid.Of course it had not been our discussions leading to the PxB. But they influenced the design, i'm sure. And regarding what the MxB users went through
(and that some paid 2k and some 1400 and got a case on top), asking for a discount seems absolutely legit to me.

So they're terrible if they use our ideas and they're silly if they don't. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Right.

Of course the designers and developers look around the net and the world when making products. However, there just isn't any material in the MxB feature request forum that can be construed as ideas and design input for a PolyBrute. There are some obvious and non original suggestions for the MxB, like e.g. naming patches, but that falls out of the PB design and the devs are fully capable of thinking about trivialities like that themselves.

Having a good look at both the MxB and the the PB makes it pretty clear; I entertain absolutely no illusions of having unwittingly given design input to the PB.

When it comes to the prices paid for MxBs, of course they vary in the open market. I paid 2k for mine, and I'm totally happy with that. If someone can nab one for 1.4k a few years later, then that's great and I'm happy for them. There's nothing outrageous about it.

Now, if there's any "donaldish" mindsets at work here it's this one: To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations.

VAU

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2020, 04:14:18 pm »
Then even worse, because if the designer team did NOT look at all the discussions around the MxB issues and did not incorporate at least SOME points it would've been totally silly. But i think, they had a good look at those discussions. And that way
i understood the thread starter.  So, it could be, you got her/him wrong quite a bid.Of course it had not been our discussions leading to the PxB. But they influenced the design, i'm sure. And regarding what the MxB users went through
(and that some paid 2k and some 1400 and got a case on top), asking for a discount seems absolutely legit to me.

So they're terrible if they use our ideas and they're silly if they don't. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Right.

Of course the designers and developers look around the net and the world when making products. However, there just isn't any material in the MxB feature request forum that can be construed as ideas and design input for a PolyBrute. There are some obvious and non original suggestions for the MxB, like e.g. naming patches, but that falls out of the PB design and the devs are fully capable of thinking about trivialities like that themselves.

Having a good look at both the MxB and the the PB makes it pretty clear; I entertain absolutely no illusions of having unwittingly given design input to the PB.

When it comes to the prices paid for MxBs, of course they vary in the open market. I paid 2k for mine, and I'm totally happy with that. If someone can nab one for 1.4k a few years later, then that's great and I'm happy for them. There's nothing outrageous about it.

Now, if there's any "donaldish" mindsets at work here it's this one: To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations.

"So they're terrible if they use our ideas" .
I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth I never said, and it clearly also would not make any sense. Why should I post many requests/suggestions here then?
I'm happy if things get improved. Like we have 256 patches on the MxB and now 3x as much on the PB, each with 5 snapshots ( still a bid limited compared to the ONE,
but much better than before)


"This thread is the most insane case of entitlement... The claim that they took our ideas to run off and make the PolyBrute is simply not true."
Neither it is "insane" nor "entitlement" * to ask for a credit for MxB owners when buying a PB ( as such rebates are totally normal with other companies for good customers, more so, if they already had larger price ups and downs and boni (like the case)  and even more so if there had been major technical problems)
 nor did anybody say, Arturia would steal our ideas or the PB is solely based on our input.

"To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations"
Again you are making things totally up here. Neither are we (most of us including me) bitter, but  happy customers, who bought a lot of Arturia products / still buying and nor do I or others have "unrealistic expectations", take a victim role or beg for rewards. I think the idea posted by the other user had a point, and Arturia can say yes or no. But everything you made out of it was quite made up.

It's strange seeing you attacking other users quite unfairly or with putting false statements in their mouth.
For somebody usually being so helpful and with your reputation that's quite irritating.


* and - but I guess I've said that before - the "entitlement" argument is completely non-valid for me, when we talk about SOFTWARE IMPROVEMENTS  (in opposite to hardware requests)
But some companies like the constant challenge to come up with the best possible and some just have no time or resources or will to improve their software in the best possible way





« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:34:31 am by VAU »

mylorman

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2020, 07:09:47 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

Processaurus

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2020, 10:21:15 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.

mylorman

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2020, 11:17:43 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.

Isn't that why they have the matrix concept .. so you can cram a lot into the matrix and not make the front panel too complicated ?? Not all of us want to use a daw and midi to control everything .. the fun of a hardware synth is twiddling the knobs in my opinion

guyaguy

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2020, 06:02:57 pm »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.
It doesn’t have to be that complex. There are several analog poly synths that have CV ins/outs that have solved for this. For example the CV ins can run through a mult and get routed to each voice card. And each keystroke generates a gate out along with the pitch value.

The reason for excluding the CV patchbay was probably a deliberate attempt at avoiding canabalizng sales of the MxB.

The only thing I wish the PB had CV in for though is audio rate modulation. Hopefully the LFOs and EGs can provide some of that to apply to the wavefolder and other targets.

clos820

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2020, 01:03:31 am »
Ok so having moved my studio, and rebuilding it from ground up, and having the opportunity again to think about how I want the midi routing to be, I come again to the issue of having to design around the MatrixBrute midi sync problem..ehhem feature?.. it is so annoying and limiting at the same time. Anyway I read again my original post here..sorry if I sound entitled..I'm really not...I paid full price...it used to work, -they introduced a bug, and ignored customers requests for a fix or compromise on settings that could work either way...sorry It's the frustration coming out. Could it be I posted something that may grab their attention? SURE!! why not?...my support tickets didn't..I know Every synth has some issues, this one is pretty bad, and not all manufactures behave this way in terms of support.. what makes this really annoying is its not a difficult fix, but they aren't interested..for now...maybe someday they will address it, but the longer it goes unfixed, the less hope we have. Even though the PolyBrute seems amazing, I won't spend the money on it now, because I want to support companies that really support their products and customer base and not just for a few updates. I have seen some nasty posts on the forum from upset people, my intention wasn't to be mean, its meant to say, "Hey Arturia can you say something about this bug? whats the deal its been a long while with not a single word on what is happening...with a fix?" maybe my approach is wrong, maybe I need to check if the Polybrute has the same "feature' as its brother Matrix...and maybe if there is a Polybrute user that understands this is not correct and logs a bug, they will fix it...although it would be the ultimate insult to injury if they fixed it in the Poly and ignored the Matrixbrute...lol..would not surprise me though. Bottom line, Arturia for the love of baby Jesus, please fix the Midi Start issue on Matrix Brute..I still want to believe! :)

mylorman

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2020, 09:16:53 am »
Ok so having moved my studio, and rebuilding it from ground up, and having the opportunity again to think about how I want the midi routing to be, I come again to the issue of having to design around the MatrixBrute midi sync problem..ehhem feature?.. it is so annoying and limiting at the same time. Anyway I read again my original post here..sorry if I sound entitled..I'm really not...I paid full price...it used to work, -they introduced a bug, and ignored customers requests for a fix or compromise on settings that could work either way...sorry It's the frustration coming out. Could it be I posted something that may grab their attention? SURE!! why not?...my support tickets didn't..I know Every synth has some issues, this one is pretty bad, and not all manufactures behave this way in terms of support.. what makes this really annoying is its not a difficult fix, but they aren't interested..for now...maybe someday they will address it, but the longer it goes unfixed, the less hope we have. Even though the PolyBrute seems amazing, I won't spend the money on it now, because I want to support companies that really support their products and customer base and not just for a few updates. I have seen some nasty posts on the forum from upset people, my intention wasn't to be mean, its meant to say, "Hey Arturia can you say something about this bug? whats the deal its been a long while with not a single word on what is happening...with a fix?" maybe my approach is wrong, maybe I need to check if the Polybrute has the same "feature' as its brother Matrix...and maybe if there is a Polybrute user that understands this is not correct and logs a bug, they will fix it...although it would be the ultimate insult to injury if they fixed it in the Poly and ignored the Matrixbrute...lol..would not surprise me though. Bottom line, Arturia for the love of baby Jesus, please fix the Midi Start issue on Matrix Brute..I still want to believe! :)

Yup would be nice to have more support for their product .. i made that clear to Leo from Arturia support and told him how pissed I was with how they do(nt) do their firmware fixes and how long it takes for them to do them .. probably not much will change I guess .. seems like Arturia methodology in how they dont do things and dont support their products properly .. QUITE SAD REALLY

VAU

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2020, 11:00:10 pm »
...I come again to the issue of having to design around the MatrixBrute midi sync problem...


Checking the different forum sections, all 6 ARTURIA analog synths before the Polybrute seem to have various SYNC issues.

standingwave

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2020, 02:13:57 pm »
  Bottom line for me:
 If a company provides the support that Arturia has for the MXB, they do not deserve to have another dime of my money. The MXB has been a mostly horrible experience for what is an exceptional instrument. Arturia spend more time and effort on marketing than they do support on their flagship instruments. Don't give me a boohoo about them being a small business; I am a small business; garenteed their revenue is much greater than my studios. I can't tell my clients to pay full price and not deliver, why do some of us give that to Arturia.
 There was a big marketing campaign around the V2 firmware release on our MXB, I'm sure they expected to unload their stock with it. Since then, it has been crickets. No traffic on the beta test site, no response about remaining bugs. It has been years; Arturia are a joke.
  Their model will see them out of the hardware market in not too long because without support, they will not have brand loyalty from any of their past customers, myself included.  Behringer are going to steam roll them. Sad.

DrJustice

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2021, 05:55:16 pm »
On second thought - never mind. Reasoning about this appears to be futile.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 09:08:30 am by DrJustice »

aWc

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2021, 05:34:06 pm »
I feel you Dr Justice. We all know the unresolved issues abut our MBs, but bottom line is, negativity has won on this forum. There is no more discussion about what we actually CAN do on this amazing machine!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 10:16:13 pm by aWc »

clos820

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2021, 03:16:58 am »
Hi everybody, sorry to anyone I may have offended with this thread. I really really only meant to shake-up Arturia Support just a little...I really don't ever expect anything free from anyone, least of all from any company. I researched the product, I saw and listened to demos, I met some of the Arturia staff at NAMM..I like the company, I like their products. I bought the MxB. I do enjoy it, its an amazing Synth I think I've said that in other posts. The negativity from people on the forum is obviously stemming from being shunned by support. I was initially asked to be a beta-tester for last firmware release, but then they never sent me the followup to get the credentials to get the firmware, and do any testing. I asked and they ignored my email.  I could have warned them of this backlash, I would have tested this and told them users would be ticked off this wasn't addressed.. Even if they had said, well we can't fix that because XYZ...Then communicate that. We are not Donalds..or whatever that implies..The Donalds to me are anyone who is short-sighted, the ones who can't see that you can only push aside existing customers a little before they get the idea they aren't important anymore, or are they? @Arturia Care to comment on any updates to MxB outstanding issue(s)?

standingwave

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2021, 12:48:39 pm »
Well worded clos820. I believe you have captured the overall feelings of the disenchanted on this forum well.

 

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