May 14, 2021, 02:29:56 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email
News:

Arturia Forums



Author Topic: FM amount is changing by itself  (Read 713 times)

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
FM amount is changing by itself
« on: October 01, 2020, 05:56:27 pm »
FM amount is changing by itself without any modulations. The change happens in sound output only, UI indicates constant FM amount as intended. The first image shows the changing sound waveform in FL Studio and Studio One, same pitch (F3 in FL Studio, F1 in Studio One), two bars at 120 bpm. The second image shows the patch the sound is recorded from, no effects. I notice audio changing audibly in both daws. I don't notice audio changing audibly in standalone mode, so it probably works as intended in standalone mode.
https://i.imgur.com/sPFJdYw.png
https://i.imgur.com/5k33QZg.png
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 06:07:49 pm by EpicRiser »

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2020, 06:55:44 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

Please post the preset itself, so it can be tested. If it's a factory preset, then the name is enough.
No modulation should be going on, unless something is doing the modulation. If it work it standalone mode, then that could indicate, that you have added modulation in the DAW somehow.

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 12:04:44 am »
Here is the preset.
I don't believe there is anything from the daws affecting the sound. The waves look similar in both daws and they sound the same as far as I hear.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 12:13:16 am by EpicRiser »

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2020, 01:24:13 am »
I have Studio One 3 professionel. Can you actually hear something is wrong?
I hear the same thing if i use the standalone, the plugin or the recorded audio from the plugin. So if what you mean is'nt there in standalone mode, then i can't confirm anything is wrong.
I can hear a drift on long notes, and that's it, but that's also in standalone mode.
Are you talking about a slight drift or an actual modulation of the parameter? If it's a drift, then does it help to change the PHASE MOD to SELF instead of KEY?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 01:46:52 am by LBH »

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2020, 03:05:16 pm »
Changing the PHASE MOD to SELF instead of KEY solves the issue. Thank you!

It was just a guess that FM amount was changing, I should have been clear about that, sorry.
All of the following is before applying your solution. I do hear a sound change in the first 2 seconds or so. The change is even more pronounced at 0.080 FM amount in the same preset, the saw sounds quite obviously affected by FM with a drifting quality to it, then after a few bars it changes suddenly to what sounds to me almost like a pure saw without FM. That's what prompted me to think that FM amount must be reducing. Here is the sound wave at 0.080 FM, in the top left - zommed in part at the start, in the top right - zoomed in part after a few bars, looks way less affected by FM, at the bottom - the whole sound. You can see a sudden change in zommed out view, happens around 14th bar.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 03:07:15 pm by EpicRiser »

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2020, 04:03:42 pm »
I've made the same observations as you describe. But both in the standalone version and the plugin.

It's good if the SELF setting helps.
When using KEY in the Phase Mod, then i actually exspect a reset each time a key is pressed. And i do think the wavetable is reset, but the Modulator seems not to be reset, and that may cause a unexspected behavior. I'm not sure if this is intended behavior or not.

I'm not sure what's going on. Perhaps ask Arturia support.
It can be about understanding the Phase Mod.

Igro

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2020, 07:07:51 am »
There is very similar issue with two orher controls - Wavetable Fold amount/Wavetable phase distortion. When there is no Unison involved, dialing these controls at various positions gives a stable tone. However, once the Unison is involved we get a random jumps in harmonics. Like if they were modulated all the time. Phase retrigg is set to zero.

Reported to Arturia long time ago. They have confirmed this, but then just forgot. Very disappointed with ithe company.

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 10:25:54 pm »
I have just discovered that this issue occurs when the sample rate is 44100Hz, and it doesn't occur if the sample rate is 44800Hz, regardless if Pigments runs inside a DAW or standalone.
The default sample rate in standalone mode is 44800Hz, so this is why I couldn't reproduce it in standalone mode at the time of making this thread.

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 10:57:59 pm »
I have just discovered that this issue occurs when the sample rate is 44100Hz, and it doesn't occur if the sample rate is 44800Hz, regardless if Pigments runs inside a DAW or standalone.
The default sample rate in standalone mode is 44800Hz, so this is why I couldn't reproduce it in standalone mode at the time of making this thread.
Something has been done about all this in Pigments 3. 
Also the Sync/ Retrig seems to work more logically now.
Do you have the same issue in Pigments 3? And no matter which Sync/ Retrig you use?

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 05:11:01 pm »
Correction: I meant 48000Hz instead of 44800Hz.
This happens with Pigments 3 too.
If to use the preset I specified before as it is, which has Sync/Retrig at Key, then the waveform recorded at 44100Hz changes over time while the waveform recorded at 48000Hz remains unchanging.
Both waveforms look identical at the beginning, the upper one is at 44100Hz, the lower is at 48000Hz, here is how they differ toward the end of the 2nd bar.
If to set Sync/Retrig as Mod Osc or Self, then both waveforms at 44100Hz and 48000Hz appear identical and unchanging over time.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 06:25:05 pm by EpicRiser »

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2021, 07:59:29 pm »
Hi EpicRiser

Are you holding a long note?
Do you have issues at initial keypresses when Sync/ Retrig is set to "Key"?

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2021, 09:40:24 pm »
The observations I described in the previous comment were made using a MIDI event 2 bars long. If I hold the note manually for some seconds with sample rate set to 44100Hz and Sync/Retrig set to "Key", I hear the sound changing within the first 2-3 seconds, then it is constant. If I reduce the FM amount, the change in sound takes more time. It appears to be changing in exactly the same manner every time I press the note regardless how long I held the note in the previous key press. Once I set sample rate to 44800Hz, the sound is constant throughout entire key presses. To be clear I'm fine with using 44800Hz sample rate so the issue doesn't occur for me, I just wanted to inform because it doesn't seem like intended behavior when using 44100Hz sample rate.

LBH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3.764
  • Karma: 38
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 11:48:32 pm »
Hi EpicRiser

I don't understand, why you haven't the same behavior when using 48000 Hz. It should not make a differrence.

If you hold the note long enough, then i will think you will hear more changes.

I understand, that you don't have any random changes in the attack, when the Sync/ Retrig is set to "Key". To me that's the important thing, so there now is a difference between using the different Sync/ Retrig settings that seem quite logic way now.

What happens after the attack depend on so many things. I think what you exsperience is quite normal.
In example the FM amount, the choosen waveform, the tunings and the Sybc/ Retrig setting have an impact on the end result.

You can ask Arturia support, if you wish.

EpicRiser

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: FM amount is changing by itself
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2021, 12:23:36 am »
Quote
I don't understand, why you haven't the same behavior when using 48000 Hz. It should not make a differrence.
I agree it should not make a difference yet it does. When everything remains the same and the only difference is the sample rate, the resulting waveforms differ as I described just two posts ago.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 12:32:33 am by EpicRiser »

 

Carbonate design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2019, Simple Machines