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Author Topic: MatrixBrute Trade in credit  (Read 883 times)

DrJustice

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2020, 03:38:19 pm »
Then even worse, because if the designer team did NOT look at all the discussions around the MxB issues and did not incorporate at least SOME points it would've been totally silly. But i think, they had a good look at those discussions. And that way
i understood the thread starter.  So, it could be, you got her/him wrong quite a bid.Of course it had not been our discussions leading to the PxB. But they influenced the design, i'm sure. And regarding what the MxB users went through
(and that some paid 2k and some 1400 and got a case on top), asking for a discount seems absolutely legit to me.

So they're terrible if they use our ideas and they're silly if they don't. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Right.

Of course the designers and developers look around the net and the world when making products. However, there just isn't any material in the MxB feature request forum that can be construed as ideas and design input for a PolyBrute. There are some obvious and non original suggestions for the MxB, like e.g. naming patches, but that falls out of the PB design and the devs are fully capable of thinking about trivialities like that themselves.

Having a good look at both the MxB and the the PB makes it pretty clear; I entertain absolutely no illusions of having unwittingly given design input to the PB.

When it comes to the prices paid for MxBs, of course they vary in the open market. I paid 2k for mine, and I'm totally happy with that. If someone can nab one for 1.4k a few years later, then that's great and I'm happy for them. There's nothing outrageous about it.

Now, if there's any "donaldish" mindsets at work here it's this one: To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations.

VAU

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2020, 04:14:18 pm »
Then even worse, because if the designer team did NOT look at all the discussions around the MxB issues and did not incorporate at least SOME points it would've been totally silly. But i think, they had a good look at those discussions. And that way
i understood the thread starter.  So, it could be, you got her/him wrong quite a bid.Of course it had not been our discussions leading to the PxB. But they influenced the design, i'm sure. And regarding what the MxB users went through
(and that some paid 2k and some 1400 and got a case on top), asking for a discount seems absolutely legit to me.

So they're terrible if they use our ideas and they're silly if they don't. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Right.

Of course the designers and developers look around the net and the world when making products. However, there just isn't any material in the MxB feature request forum that can be construed as ideas and design input for a PolyBrute. There are some obvious and non original suggestions for the MxB, like e.g. naming patches, but that falls out of the PB design and the devs are fully capable of thinking about trivialities like that themselves.

Having a good look at both the MxB and the the PB makes it pretty clear; I entertain absolutely no illusions of having unwittingly given design input to the PB.

When it comes to the prices paid for MxBs, of course they vary in the open market. I paid 2k for mine, and I'm totally happy with that. If someone can nab one for 1.4k a few years later, then that's great and I'm happy for them. There's nothing outrageous about it.

Now, if there's any "donaldish" mindsets at work here it's this one: To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations.

"So they're terrible if they use our ideas" .
I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth I never said, and it clearly also would not make any sense. Why should I post many requests/suggestions here then?
I'm happy if things get improved. Like we have 256 patches on the MxB and now 3x as much on the PB, each with 5 snapshots ( still a bid limited compared to the ONE,
but much better than before)


"This thread is the most insane case of entitlement... The claim that they took our ideas to run off and make the PolyBrute is simply not true."
Neither it is "insane" nor "entitlement" * to ask for a credit for MxB owners when buying a PB ( as such rebates are totally normal with other companies for good customers, more so, if they already had larger price ups and downs and boni (like the case)  and even more so if there had been major technical problems)
 nor did anybody say, Arturia would steal our ideas or the PB is solely based on our input.

"To think that one deserves credit for something one didn't do, to claim a victim role where there is none and to clamor for a reward in the process - a stance seemingly borne out of bitterness and unrealistic expectations"
Again you are making things totally up here. Neither are we (most of us including me) bitter, but  happy customers, who bought a lot of Arturia products / still buying and nor do I or others have "unrealistic expectations", take a victim role or beg for rewards. I think the idea posted by the other user had a point, and Arturia can say yes or no. But everything you made out of it was quite made up.

It's strange seeing you attacking other users quite unfairly or with putting false statements in their mouth.
For somebody usually being so helpful and with your reputation that's quite irritating.


* and - but I guess I've said that before - the "entitlement" argument is completely non-valid for me, when we talk about SOFTWARE IMPROVEMENTS  (in opposite to hardware requests)
But some companies like the constant challenge to come up with the best possible and some just have no time or resources or will to improve their software in the best possible way





« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:34:31 am by VAU »

mylorman

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2020, 07:09:47 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

Processaurus

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2020, 10:21:15 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.

mylorman

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2020, 11:17:43 am »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.

Isn't that why they have the matrix concept .. so you can cram a lot into the matrix and not make the front panel too complicated ?? Not all of us want to use a daw and midi to control everything .. the fun of a hardware synth is twiddling the knobs in my opinion

guyaguy

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2020, 06:02:57 pm »
Well all i know is that when i saw the PB with no CV it was an instant no-buy for me .. I would have thought that at least the arturia team would have provided some commonality between the two products to attract people that had the MB to be interested in buying the PB .. major marketing mistake in my opinion.. if they had provided some more connectivity then perhaps people would feel that they wanted both units and would not be think that arturia should provide some sort of trade in option for the MB when they want to get the PB .. in my opinion it was a silly oversight on behalf of arturia

The CV stuff gets complicated and convoluted with a polysynth, it’s like 6 monosynths that take turns playing. For things like note cv and gate output, envelope output, you’d have 6 of each, and who knows where the note you play would come out. There’s 12 filters in there so if you had cv going in which one do you control? They might have pondered doing a “mix down” cv output, but then realized as likely as not, someone wouldn’t like how it collapsed poly to mono. For expanding a polysynth, MIDI would be the conventional way to go, polyphonic friendly, and MIDI clock to sync it to other things.
It doesn’t have to be that complex. There are several analog poly synths that have CV ins/outs that have solved for this. For example the CV ins can run through a mult and get routed to each voice card. And each keystroke generates a gate out along with the pitch value.

The reason for excluding the CV patchbay was probably a deliberate attempt at avoiding canabalizng sales of the MxB.

The only thing I wish the PB had CV in for though is audio rate modulation. Hopefully the LFOs and EGs can provide some of that to apply to the wavefolder and other targets.

clos820

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Re: MatrixBrute Trade in credit
« Reply #21 on: Today at 01:03:31 am »
Ok so having moved my studio, and rebuilding it from ground up, and having the opportunity again to think about how I want the midi routing to be, I come again to the issue of having to design around the MatrixBrute midi sync problem..ehhem feature?.. it is so annoying and limiting at the same time. Anyway I read again my original post here..sorry if I sound entitled..I'm really not...I paid full price...it used to work, -they introduced a bug, and ignored customers requests for a fix or compromise on settings that could work either way...sorry It's the frustration coming out. Could it be I posted something that may grab their attention? SURE!! why not?...my support tickets didn't..I know Every synth has some issues, this one is pretty bad, and not all manufactures behave this way in terms of support.. what makes this really annoying is its not a difficult fix, but they aren't interested..for now...maybe someday they will address it, but the longer it goes unfixed, the less hope we have. Even though the PolyBrute seems amazing, I won't spend the money on it now, because I want to support companies that really support their products and customer base and not just for a few updates. I have seen some nasty posts on the forum from upset people, my intention wasn't to be mean, its meant to say, "Hey Arturia can you say something about this bug? whats the deal its been a long while with not a single word on what is happening...with a fix?" maybe my approach is wrong, maybe I need to check if the Polybrute has the same "feature' as its brother Matrix...and maybe if there is a Polybrute user that understands this is not correct and logs a bug, they will fix it...although it would be the ultimate insult to injury if they fixed it in the Poly and ignored the Matrixbrute...lol..would not surprise me though. Bottom line, Arturia for the love of baby Jesus, please fix the Midi Start issue on Matrix Brute..I still want to believe! :)

 

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