Keystep Pro not sending NOTE OFF when using sustain pedal

[danielrpa]

Problem reproduces with 1.3.1 Firmware (and the previous one, so it wasn't introduced in the last update).

1. Press your sustain pedal
2. Press any note, let's say C
3. Release C
4. Press C again
5. Release C
6. Release sustain pedal

An attached synth via MIDI (tried with Roland MC-101 and Yamaha MOX6) will keep sounding the note forever (I believe the first one). This problem only happens (and always happens) when pressing the same key more than once while sustain is being pressed. It will hold as many notes as you want this way. The KSP is likely not sending all the NOTE OFF commands it should be sending to the synth.

[Terrym]

Hi   I took a look at this and cannot find an issue here, maybe open the MCC and in view open the midi console and see if the notes are correct there.
if you plug in a pedal after powering on you will get a reverse connection as on mine the sustain will be on . so you need it plugged in before powering up. it depends on the polarity of your pedal.

[danielrpa]

Hello Terrym,

Thanks for your response. When you say "you can't find an issue here", are you saying that the Keystep Pro is behaving as intended? It is not for sure. I have other MIDI controllers and none of them have this issue (including the Keylab mk2 61). Just press sustain, play a lot of notes (some repeated) and lift the pedal, you will see that many notes will remain playing. I'm aware of the behavior where KSP figures out sustain pedal polarity when booting and that's certainly not it.

Thanks for the MCC tip, it makes the bug very obvious. In my example, it sends 2 "Note On" events and a single "Note off" event and it *never sends a Sustain CC64 event* - my synths see 2 Note On, 1 Note off and thinks that the first note is still sounding. If you use the Keylab mk2, it sends a Note Off as soon as you release the key BUT it also sends a Sustain CC64 event, so the problem never happens. It's almost as if the KSP is trying to be smart by emulating the sustain through Note On/Note off events.

[Terrym]

Hi. Ok I’ll check again but so far all notes that are held then released give a off note after
Did you do a factory reset after upgrading ?
As it’s seems ok my end
I will check again as I said

[danielrpa]

Hello Terrym,

I have not done a factory reset after updating because 1. The instructions didn't ask me to do that and 2. That would mean losing all my configurations and saved work. It's a really blunt approach so it would be great if it wasn't needed... But if I can find a good way to backup my work I'll give it a try.

[danielrpa]

I was able to make progress on the issue. If I select "Arp" instead of "Seq" mode for the track, the Note Off works correctly - ALMOST correctly at least, because it seems that the Keystep Pro has quite a small buffer for Notes and if you press enough keys (let's say 10-20) with the sustain pedal pressed, eventually it will miss Note Off the same way once you release the Sustain keyboard.

But I can state that it's working ALMOST correctly on Arp mode, at least if you don't press too many keys while the sustain pedal is depressed (best way to test is hold down sustain and go crazy on the keyboard before releasing sustain - you will hear some held sounds on the external synth)

Unfortunately that's not a full solution because, well, I don't want to "Arp", I want to play the keyboard freestyle while other tracks are doing their thing while the sequencer is running.

[jpayette]

Just registered to say, I am having the exact same problem. One extra piece of information I can add is that the issue seems to depend on what device is receiving the signals. I have a Yamaha MX61 and a Korg Minilogue connected to my KSP, and the problem occurs with the MX61 but not with the Minilogue. I assume the Minilogue and the MX61 are interpreting the signals differently. So if you aren't able to reproduce, it may be because of the synth you're controlling.

[danielrpa]

Yes - the Mininova won't reproduce the problem either. This depends, I believe, on whether the synths support tracking multiple events on the same note - if they not, the single Note Off will work for the synth. The MX, MOX and MC101 synths are able to track multiple events on the same note.

[Edouard_Arturia]

Hello Daniel.

You can backup your work using the MIDI Control Center recall function, or by drag & dropping a project from the Device project section to the Project browser section.
But remember to proceed the update the of the MIDI Control Center when you will be prompted to.$

If you keep having this issue even after reseting, can you confirm if it is only when pressing several times the same key with hold / sustain enabled.

Best

Edouard

[danielrpa]

Hello Edouard,

I reset everything and the problem persists. It's not only when you hit the key several times, you just need to hit the key more than once with sustain enabled while in Seq mode - twice is enough. In Arp mode, the problem still happens but you need to hit the keys many more times, it's like it has a bigger buffer.

Basically, this problem makes it very hard, if not impossible to play songs with long sustain parts.

[Edouard_Arturia]

Hello Daniel.
Would you be able to tell me if you can reproduce the same behavior with the hold button?
Thank you
Edouard

[danielrpa]

Edouard, yes, the problem reproduces with the Hold button. It is as if the hold button and the sustain pedal did exactly the same thing - the scenario is exactly the same:

1. press hold button (Hold is on)
2. press C key twice (or any other key, but must be the same key twice)
3. Press hold button again (Hold is off)

You will still hear the note sounding. Since I'm using an instrument with infinite sustain, the note keeps sounding forever.

[diesle55]

This is undeniably an issue that has been brought to Arturia support, they are aware of it, and its disappointing it wasn't addressed in this latest release.

_Support Request #638776___________________________________________________________________________

Léo (Arturia Support)

Jul 30, 2020, 2:38 PM GMT+2

Hi David,

Thank you for reaching back,

I've indeed referenced this and have narrowed it down to something probably specific to the hold state induced by the use of sustain in conjonction with the synth on the receiving end.

The Keystep pro seems, in the current state, to only be outputting a single note off per specific note when the sustain pedal is released (and the unit brought out of hold state) doing so, if you have pressed the same key multiple times, will send corresponding notes on, but which don't have the same amount of notes off when out of the hold.

I've tested this with a vast range of synths which seems not to exhibit such issues, however I think that for the reface CP and Juno DS88 the synths requires the same amount of notes off as of note on creating this undefinite sustain of these notes.

Have you experienced this on the Juno regardless of the patches loaded and to the amount of voices from these patches?

I've added all of these informations to the report I've made to the developers which will be better suited to assess the validity of this behavior based on the midi norm and make necessary changes if needed via firmware update of the unit,

Don't hesitate to let me know, in the meantime, if facing the slightest further difficulty with your unit,

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Kind regards.
Léo - Arturia Support

[danielrpa]

To clarify our argument further, the Keystep Pro is clearly not complying with the MIDI specification:

"...every Note On should eventually be followed by a respective Note Off message (ie, when it's time to stop the note from sounding). Even if the note's sound fades out (due to some VCA envelope decay) before a Note Off for this note is received, at some later point a Note Off should be received."

I just wanted to mention that because it's not really that there is a problem with Roland/Yamaha synths, but these synths are properly implementing MIDI. It's absolutely the right thing to do for a synth to want to layer events on the same Note - many synths will start a new attack while playing a release from a previous note, and in these case they require 2 Note Offs as the spec calls for.

[vegtec]

I have exactly the same problem as danielrpa described with my new Keystep Pro with current firmware 1.3.2 built 657.
I use Roland XV-3080 and microKorg which are really not exotic hardware synths.
The problem occurs on both devices.
Both synths work fine by using Ableton live or my M-Audio Midi Keyboard as controllers since years.
It is an issue of the Keystep Pro.
It is really disturbing e.g. if you want to play a piano voice in the classic way.

Is there meanwhile a solution in sight?